@cdl15 said:

I just do....

Oh, okay.

What are the lottery numbers for tomorrow?

@cdl15 said:

Ray Lewis to get a new statue outside of Baltimore Stadium. this kind of makes me puke. how does OJ Simpson not get a statue outside Buffalo. or how does Pete Rose not get a statue outside Cincinnati. seriously the guy can't say 1 sentence without saying the word god. we are 100 percent sure he's going to hell. so when God strokes Baltimore with the next natural disaster don't sit there with your thumbs up your ass in wonder y us.

How are you 100% sure he's going to Hell?

@the-gipper said:

'Tim Couch Pulls Out' timestamp='1360185479' post='325864'

32 coaches in the NFL should be fired, then. It's a proven fact.

I'm not saying Harbaugh told Crabtree to deliberately not catch the touchdown. But it's clear as day that Crabtree's first intention was to sell the hold, not to run the fade. As you've said, the fade requires a crisp cut to the back corner, effectively isolating the DB with the WR's body. If contact is initiated, which it normally is, it will be initiated by the DB trying to jam the WR.

Sorry, but if that is the case then they are fucking dumbasses and deserve to lose.

Crabtree ran almost ten yards before initiating contact with the DB, and then continued to engage the DB well after the ball was thrown. He makes no preemptive move to the corner and he doesn't attempt to push off. He's trying to sell the defensive holding.

It may be fine for him to initiate contact, but then he HAS to disengage. He has to disengage to get a real shot at catching the ball. It is in the process of disengaging where he may be likely to get the flag. If he fails to try to disengage then no flag and no catch.. As Cris Carter said....he executed that play poorly and didn't try to disengage properly.

Well, heard an interesting comment from John Clayton on ESPN on the way home from work. "Well, they're not going to make that call in the playoffs". Excuse me, then don't make that call in the regular season either. Fire the Refs- or whoever's telling them to ref differently when the big money games start.

I guess once the post-season starts, it's OK to interfere (only one PI in the entire postseason, in the Atlanta game when it was already out of reach), tackle the qb out of bounds, push a Ref, or have an offensive lineman tackle a pass rusher- no call. BS.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

32 coaches in the NFL should be fired, then. It's a proven fact.

I'm not saying Harbaugh told Crabtree to deliberately not catch the touchdown. But it's clear as day that Crabtree's first intention was to sell the hold, not to run the fade. As you've said, the fade requires a crisp cut to the back corner, effectively isolating the DB with the WR's body. If contact is initiated, which it normally is, it will be initiated by the DB trying to jam the WR.

Sorry, but if that is the case then they are fucking dumbasses and deserve to lose.

Crabtree ran almost ten yards before initiating contact with the DB, and then continued to engage the DB well after the ball was thrown. He makes no preemptive move to the corner and he doesn't attempt to push off. He's trying to sell the defensive holding.

It may be fine for him to initiate contact, but then he HAS to disengage. He has to disengage to get a real shot at catching the ball. It is in the process of disengaging where he may be likely to get the flag. If he fails to try to disengage then no flag and no catch.. As Cris Carter said....he executed that play poorly and didn't try to disengage properly.

@the-gipper said:

Sorry, but that is THE dumbest theory that I have ever heard. "The play was designed to draw a flag".

Any head coach that played a game with that philosophy should be fired immediately, because they would be relying on the auspices of the referree to do their will....and refs just don't always do that.

The play was absolutely poorly executed. The first choice on that play would have to be for Crabtree to get open and catch the ball for a TD. If a hold or interference call should be made, fine, that is plan B. But Crabtree did so poorly on that play that neither plan A or plan B had a chance to work.

32 coaches in the NFL should be fired, then. It's a proven fact.

I'm not saying Harbaugh told Crabtree to deliberately not catch the touchdown. But it's clear as day that Crabtree's first intention was to sell the hold, not to run the fade. As you've said, the fade requires a crisp cut to the back corner, effectively isolating the DB with the WR's body. If contact is initiated, which it normally is, it will be initiated by the DB trying to jam the WR.

Crabtree ran almost ten yards before initiating contact with the DB, and then continued to engage the DB well after the ball was thrown. He makes no preemptive move to the corner and he doesn't attempt to push off. He's trying to sell the defensive holding.

After Spygate, the bounty scandal, and Giants' players faking injuries in the Super Bowl, do you really think that anything is off-limits to these coaches? There's a reason these plays exist, and it's for situations like that. We used to practice the "fake" fumble slap-around at the end of every practice, for those situations where you have to eat up a large chunk of clock on 4th down without ending the play.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

The play wasn't poorly executed at all. It was executed to perfection. The problem was, the desired play was reliant on getting the flag rather than getting the TD.

Go back and watch Crabtree. Then watch him again. Then watch him again. He makes very little attempt to get open, even when recognizing the ball has been thrown. He engages the DB, rather than the DB engaging him, and then maintains contact through the throw, never opening his hips to break to the predestined spot of the fade. That play was designed to draw the penalty through and through.

Assuming they had scored on that play, they then would have had to successfully get a 2 point conversion to get a 3 point lead. They then would have given Baltimore the ball back with 1:46 to play and three timeouts. Their defense had been gashed nearly all game by a clearly superior Ravens passing offense. All Baltimore would have had to do would be to go 40-50 yards and kick the field goal.

With the way the NFL is moving toward protecting the offensive player, there are roughly 2-3 concepts in each team's playbook geared solely toward getting a pass interference call. For instance, the smash combo has been a popular concept for a few years now. The smash is essentially a hitch or flat route to the outside man, and a corner route to the inside man. Teams are now starting to adapt to the rule changes by running the smash out of a trips formation, with the slot receiver running a 9, or fly. Most times, the safety will take the deep route, leaving either the corner or hitch wide open. But if the safety bites on the corner, that leaves the (normally #2 or even nickel) corner in one-on-one coverage against a receiver downfield. It's times like this that a QB is taught to underthrow the ball, because the corner will more than likely have to interfere to make a play.

Is it cheap? Yes. But it works more often than not.

I am positive that Harbaugh designed that play in order to get the flag. Pass interference in the endzone would have given them the ball on the one, where they could have kneeled it twice and run two QB sneaks to eat up almost all of the clock and get the TD.

You're right in general but I would definitely disagree about that being Harbaughs design. I mean there's no telling for certain but to leave the final play in the biggest game of your life to a ref is not something I'd never see either Harbaugh doing.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

The play wasn't poorly executed at all. It was executed to perfection. The problem was, the desired play was reliant on getting the flag rather than getting the TD.

Go back and watch Crabtree. Then watch him again. Then watch him again. He makes very little attempt to get open, even when recognizing the ball has been thrown. He engages the DB, rather than the DB engaging him, and then maintains contact through the throw, never opening his hips to break to the predestined spot of the fade. That play was designed to draw the penalty through and through.

Assuming they had scored on that play, they then would have had to successfully get a 2 point conversion to get a 3 point lead. They then would have given Baltimore the ball back with 1:46 to play and three timeouts. Their defense had been gashed nearly all game by a clearly superior Ravens passing offense. All Baltimore would have had to do would be to go 40-50 yards and kick the field goal.

With the way the NFL is moving toward protecting the offensive player, there are roughly 2-3 concepts in each team's playbook geared solely toward getting a pass interference call. For instance, the smash combo has been a popular concept for a few years now. The smash is essentially a hitch or flat route to the outside man, and a corner route to the inside man. Teams are now starting to adapt to the rule changes by running the smash out of a trips formation, with the slot receiver running a 9, or fly. Most times, the safety will take the deep route, leaving either the corner or hitch wide open. But if the safety bites on the corner, that leaves the (normally #2 or even nickel) corner in one-on-one coverage against a receiver downfield. It's times like this that a QB is taught to underthrow the ball, because the corner will more than likely have to interfere to make a play.

Is it cheap? Yes. But it works more often than not.

I am positive that Harbaugh designed that play in order to get the flag. Pass interference in the endzone would have given them the ball on the one, where they could have kneeled it twice and run two QB sneaks to eat up almost all of the clock and get the TD.

Sorry, but that is THE dumbest theory that I have ever heard. "The play was designed to draw a flag".

Any head coach that played a game with that philosophy should be fired immediately, because they would be relying on the auspices of the referree to do their will....and refs just don't always do that.

The play was absolutely poorly executed. The first choice on that play would have to be for Crabtree to get open and catch the ball for a TD. If a hold or interference call should be made, fine, that is plan B. But Crabtree did so poorly on that play that neither plan A or plan B had a chance to work.

@the-gipper said:

I agree. I am just saying IF they were going to do the fade route, do it right. It was poorly executed by Crabtree. As mentioned, Cris Carter said so.

The play wasn't poorly executed at all. It was executed to perfection. The problem was, the desired play was reliant on getting the flag rather than getting the TD.

Go back and watch Crabtree. Then watch him again. Then watch him again. He makes very little attempt to get open, even when recognizing the ball has been thrown. He engages the DB, rather than the DB engaging him, and then maintains contact through the throw, never opening his hips to break to the predestined spot of the fade. That play was designed to draw the penalty through and through.

Assuming they had scored on that play, they then would have had to successfully get a 2 point conversion to get a 3 point lead. They then would have given Baltimore the ball back with 1:46 to play and three timeouts. Their defense had been gashed nearly all game by a clearly superior Ravens passing offense. All Baltimore would have had to do would be to go 40-50 yards and kick the field goal.

With the way the NFL is moving toward protecting the offensive player, there are roughly 2-3 concepts in each team's playbook geared solely toward getting a pass interference call. For instance, the smash combo has been a popular concept for a few years now. The smash is essentially a hitch or flat route to the outside man, and a corner route to the inside man. Teams are now starting to adapt to the rule changes by running the smash out of a trips formation, with the slot receiver running a 9, or fly. Most times, the safety will take the deep route, leaving either the corner or hitch wide open. But if the safety bites on the corner, that leaves the (normally #2 or even nickel) corner in one-on-one coverage against a receiver downfield. It's times like this that a QB is taught to underthrow the ball, because the corner will more than likely have to interfere to make a play.

Is it cheap? Yes. But it works more often than not.

I am positive that Harbaugh designed that play in order to get the flag. Pass interference in the endzone would have given them the ball on the one, where they could have kneeled it twice and run two QB sneaks to eat up almost all of the clock and get the TD.

Endymion said:

Nah, I think the 49'ers should've run it at least twice in that final series. Gore is one of the top running backs in the league and Kaepernick is lightning fast. If they ran on first down and got 3 yards that would've put some mystery back in the playcalling for the Ravens...possibly getting them to overcommit to the run on second down. Once you throw an incompletion on 1st down, the chances of calling a run play in that final series diminished greatly. Baltimore was playing the pass the whole way. You can't rely on the officials to make plays for you.

I agree. I am just saying IF they were going to do the fade route, do it right. It was poorly executed by Crabtree. As mentioned, Cris Carter said so.

@the-gipper said:

Think about it: Kaepernick and Crabtree should have watched film of BR and Santonio Holmes to see how that fade pass should have been run.

Nah, I think the 49'ers should've run it at least twice in that final series. Gore is one of the top running backs in the league and Kaepernick is lightning fast. If they ran on first down and got 3 yards that would've put some mystery back in the playcalling for the Ravens...possibly getting them to overcommit to the run on second down. Once you throw an incompletion on 1st down, the chances of calling a run play in that final series diminished greatly. Baltimore was playing the pass the whole way. You can't rely on the officials to make plays for you.

Endymion said:

Gip,

You're not with the official Brown's Board assessment of the Steelers Super Bowl Title from 2005. I believe this board's official standing recognizes the officials who donned Black and Yellow Zebra suits. I'd tell you to check facts with the Walrus but he already left the building.

Well, that Super Bowl IS considered the most tainted in history:

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/taint-by-numbers/5117/

But, that is a whole other story. I am simply saying that however the outcome of that game was derived at BR was not a major player in that victory for the Steelers (maybe those refs were more major ). Wholely unlike the 2008 game however where he was an obvious major contributing factor.

Think about it: Kaepernick and Crabtree should have watched film of BR and Santonio Holmes to see how that fade pass should have been run.

@the-gipper said:

In '05 BR was a standby actor while that team's defense won that title.

Gip,

You're not with the official Brown's Board assessment of the Steelers Super Bowl Title from 2005. I believe this board's official standing recognizes the officials who donned Black and Yellow Zebra suits. I'd tell you to check facts with the Walrus but he already left the building.

@ravensfan1996 said:

I would agree with you, but Graham and Montana both played on dominant teams. Besides 2000, Ray never had a dominant team, yet he led them year in and year out. Two titles in 17 years is pretty good, only trumped by Brady's three. No other team has won more then two in Ray's 17 years. That's a leader.

Anyone that "credits" this Super Bowl victory to Ray Lewis is as foolish as those Steeler fans who "credit" the 2005 Super Bowl win by the Steelers to Ben Roethlisberger. Here, like there, it is totally to the credit to others on those teams, not to the guys involved.

Flacco got hot at the right time....and with the help of a few prayers you were able to win these games.

In '05 BR was a standby actor while that team's defense won that title.

Charles Haley went from winning Super Bowls with the 49ers to then winning Super Bowls with the Cowboys. He won 5 titles in the course of about 10 years.

Should he be considered far greater than Lewis etc.

If you are just counting titles, you can't argue with that.

How about Mean Joe Greene, or Lambert et al.

Certainly they have a priority argument if you are just counting titles.

@ravensfan1996 said:

I respect you, miktoxic, but your facts are incorrect. Ray wasn't aquitted of murder, those chumped up charges were dropped. Also, he never used the deer antler garbage, as Mitch Ross came out and admitted. It's my opinion, that if you are two thugs who try to rob someone during the course of the evening and you get dead, bad night for you. So sad, I weep for you. Ray Lewis never murdered anyone.

Neither did Tony Soprano. Or Adolph Hitler. He just had his minions carry out his will however.

@ravensfan1996 said:

2 Super Bowl Championships

2 NFL Defensive Player of the Year awards

1 Super Bowl MVP Award

17 years as the heart and soul of the Baltimore Ravens

Hate if you want, but Ray Lewis is the greatest defensive player of all time. Hate on him, but kiss his rings while you do.

Greatest defensive player of all time? No. Not even best MLB of all time. Can you say Dick Butkus.

In the conversation of best MLBs of all time? OK, perhaps. You have to include the likes of Nitschke/Lambert/Singletary/Schmidt etc. in that conversation as well.

@miktoxic said:

lol! :lol:

i heard that's a side affect. when wrestling was big and mcmahon didn't test it was hilarious to see the huge frigging dudes get in the ring and bounce around. little marble sacks and downward pointing nips. great look.

take advantage of your age and get laid as much as possible. pretty soon you'll get tied down, have some kids and by the time you're my age, be lucky if you can produce sawdust to shoot from your old dried up stick and sac.

I've actually never taken any form of supplement outside of condensed whey and casein proteins and the occasional creatine loading. I've never had the balls, no pun intended.

I've shot up coworkers and teammates and just don't see the appeal. It costs entirely too much and it doesn't yield any miracle results.

But I've heard the stories, and I can imagine that would be the case.

Not for me.

@ravensfan1996 said:

In my defense, I've been on here when they lost too.

That's even stupider. Get a life dude.

Those two dead "kids" were thugs who were trying to commit a robbery that night. Live stupid, die young.

Is that what you tell yourself to feel better about it?

Do you not consider Lewis' two "long-time associates" who knifed them and took their lives, "thugs"? The ones that got in his limo and fled with him, the ones that he protected by lying for them which led to his felony conviction?

Isn't it curious how Ray's white suit he wore that night never showed up?

His friends were just protecting him from a robbery, why the cover up?

You know better ... you just don't admit it to yourself.

I feel sorry for you, you are a piece of work.

It has to suck knowing that deep down Lewis protected two murdering thugs and your team was stolen from a loyal fanbase. That is probably why you are on here celebrating your Super Bowl wins, because deep down you know they are tainted and this makes you feel better about yourself.

When the Browns win the Super Bowl I will have a completely clear conscience and I will be celebrating it with loyal Browns fans ... not bragging like an idiot on rival boards. You have really embarrassed yourself.

Zombo

Zombo said:

Two dead kids on the sidewalk.

I know where I won't be when the Browns win the Super Bowl: On a Ravens Board.

Pretty pathetic, man.

Zombo

In my defense, I've been on here when they lost too. Those two dead "kids" were thugs who were trying to commit a robbery that night. Live stupid, die young.

@ravensfan1996 said:

2 Super Bowl Championships

2 NFL Defensive Player of the Year awards

Two dead kids on the sidewalk.

I know where I won't be when the Browns win the Super Bowl: On a Ravens Board.

Pretty pathetic, man.

Zombo

@browns149 said:

well seeing as he played 17 years and NO OTHER team won more then 2 titles, there was NO dominant team and ray ray could only lead his team to 2 titles.in an era of no dominant teams. That says alot about his LACK of leadership

How many titles did Cleveland win in that time? Or playoff games for that matter? Real leadership there.

@ravensfan1996 said:

I would agree with you, but Graham and Montana both played on dominant teams. Besides 2000, Ray never had a dominant team, yet he led them year in and year out. Two titles in 17 years is pretty good, only trumped by Brady's three. No other team has won more then two in Ray's 17 years. That's a leader.

well seeing as he played 17 years and NO OTHER team won more then 2 titles, there was NO dominant team and ray ray could only lead his team to 2 titles.in an era of no dominant teams. That says alot about his LACK of leadership

@browns149 said:

He was NO WAY the best leader. He won 2 titles in 17 years. Otto Grahman played in 10 straight title games. Joe Montana LED his team to 4 titles, so did Bradshaw. Th only defensive players to lead a team to titles were Reggie White and LT. ray ray doesn't even come close to those guys

ray ray was a great player, but to say he was the BEST leader in NFL history, is a far stretch. Even for a ravens fan.

I would agree with you, but Graham and Montana both played on dominant teams. Besides 2000, Ray never had a dominant team, yet he led them year in and year out. Two titles in 17 years is pretty good, only trumped by Brady's three. No other team has won more then two in Ray's 17 years. That's a leader.