The accurate question is "is he better than every other FA" and he is absolutely the bottom of the barrel for FA LB's.

XxDaBuckeyexX said:

Oh youre right on Alex Smith. I was thinking more along the lines of Jarius Byrd or Greg Jennings or Dwayne Bowe. If you dont think the city itself has anything to do with a players decision youre fooling yourself.

I think the cash has far, far more to do with it that the city. And Cleveland IS known as a great football town, despite what you may think.

And who the coaches of the team are is equally influential in a FAs decision.

Nevertheless, I don't think that "this being Cleveland" has that much to do with FAs coming here. The past regime Holmgren/Heckert simply had a philosophy of not going after big name FAs.

(I believe part of this was dictated by Randy Lerner who knew he was going to sell and didn't want a potential new owner saddled with an albatross of a big FA contract)

While I agree with you that 65% will stay where they are and that 31 other teams will be bidding...it will all be dictated by cash and playing opportunity.

E.g. Alex Smith will want to go somewhere where he can almost be assured of the starting QB job....and that mean probably only 3-4 teams, and I am not sure the Browns is one of those.

You might see interest in Arizona/KC/Jax/Buffalo and where else?

@thenew23 said:

Exactly...

And if this is a wish list for FA, here is mine:

S - Jarius Byrd or Dashon Goldson or Glover Quin

OLB - Paul Kruger or Phillip Wheeler or Connor Barwin

CB - Sean Smith or Derek Cox or Tony Carter

WR - Danny Amendola or Brian Hartline or Greg Jennings

ILB - Dannell Ellerbe or Brad Jones

TE - Martellus Bennett

OG - Andy Levitre or Louis Vasquez or Kevin Boothe

If we get one or two of these guys, I'll be happy.

Whats really sad is only 4 or 5 of those guys will actually hit the open market. And theyre on everybody elses wish list too.

It's gonna be fun.

Mike

XxDaBuckeyexX said:

Flacco is not leaving Baltimore.

End of conversation.

Exactly...

And if this is a wish list for FA, here is mine:

S - Jarius Byrd or Dashon Goldson or Glover Quin

OLB - Paul Kruger or Phillip Wheeler or Connor Barwin

CB - Sean Smith or Derek Cox or Tony Carter

WR - Danny Amendola or Brian Hartline or Greg Jennings

ILB - Dannell Ellerbe or Brad Jones

TE - Martellus Bennett

OG - Andy Levitre or Louis Vasquez or Kevin Boothe

If we get one or two of these guys, I'll be happy.

End of conversation.

Endymion said:

Right now, Weeden has no real cap impact on the Browns, nor has he really stepped up to say he is starting calibre material.

Well, you see, this season is weird. If this had not been a bizarre season where 3 rookie QBs took their team to the playoffs, by all historical evidence BW3 had a VERY GOOD rookie season....better than most HOF caliber QBs. Better than P. Manning, Favre, BR, Eli, Elway, etc. etc. etc. Its just that it was not as good as Luck or RGIII....but NO ONE except maybe Marino has ever had a rookie year like those guys. So I am not so sure you should be so down on Weeden.

Weeden's biggest expense was the 2nd first round pick your team spent (or I would say "overspent") on him. Tannehill and Dalton have stepped up for their repsective organizations to clearly establish themselves as the starters heading into 2013. You don't spend big bucks in free agency when you already appear to have an answer at a position on your team.

I don't see where Tannehill had one bit of a better season than Weeden did.

It's not what I think about Flacco that matters. Before the addition of Caldwell, I think the Ravens would've bypassed on a transition/franchise tag for Flacco...now I don't know that they can. As you mentioned, I don't think Reed is in their future plans. There's no way they can spend enough money to keep him on the team unless Flacco leaves and Reed's in the twilight of his career. (The $15.7M they are under the cap does not include a contract for Reed).

Actually, attempting to upgrade "Dilfer" resulted in a disaster for the Ravens and that will probably weigh heavily on them as they consider the transition/franchise tags.

Yes, I think they tried to go to Elvis Grbac. That didn't work out.

As for my opinion of Flacco, I think he's better than Dilfer ever was. I think the Ravens viewed him as a Niel O'Donnell style QB until recently (i.e. a good system QB, but not an elite NFL QB). O'Donnell was good for the Steelers, but the Rooney's didn't have the desire to overpay for his services. Unlike the Steelers though the Ravens don't have another QB waiting in the wings.

I agree that Flacco has come out better than Dilfer....but a. this SB ain't won yet, and b. see my supposition that the Ravens throughout the whole year were at best incrementally better than the Steelers and Bengals...and Browns. I think they are on one of those roles. Flacco is playing out of their mind. They are riding incredible luck and emotion into this SB...and I don't think they will be nearly as good next year...though, again, I will say I agree....until lately, yes, Flacco was, to me, a system guy like O'Donnell. (Hell, he may still be...but I have upgraded my view of him)

With Baltimore's cap position, I don't think its a sure thing the Ravens transition/franchise him. As a matter of fact if he loses the Super Bowl the chances of transition/franchising him will diminish greatly. I don't see the Ravens paying a QB $10-$12M/yr who just lost the Super Bowl. Furthermore, I believe ole' brother Jim and the 49'ers will probably give the Ravens a sweatheart deal for Alex Smith. Alex Smith isn't a upgrade in my view...he's a cheaper alternative.

Hey, I hope you are right. I hope Flacco jumps ship...or they make him walk the plank. But...it would be an absolute PR nightmare for them to do that. I think there will absolutely be too much pressure on them to let him go. Win or lose.

Hell, maybe next year the Ravens and Steelers could go head to head for 4th place in the division if that is the case.

@the-gipper said:

The Browns may not be looking either..any more so than the others you mention.

........unless, you/they think that Flacco is nothing more that a modern day Trent Dilfer....a game manager QB who is merely a replaceable cog in their machine.

Right now, Weeden has no real cap impact on the Browns, nor has he really stepped up to say he is starting calibre material. Weeden's biggest expense was the 2nd first round pick your team spent (or I would say "overspent") on him. Tannehill and Dalton have stepped up for their repsective organizations to clearly establish themselves as the starters heading into 2013. You don't spend big bucks in free agency when you already appear to have an answer at a position on your team.

It's not what I think about Flacco that matters. Before the addition of Caldwell, I think the Ravens would've bypassed on a transition/franchise tag for Flacco...now I don't know that they can. As you mentioned, I don't think Reed is in their future plans. There's no way they can spend enough money to keep him on the team unless Flacco leaves and Reed's in the twilight of his career. (The $15.7M they are under the cap does not include a contract for Reed).

Actually, attempting to upgrade "Dilfer" resulted in a disaster for the Ravens and that will probably weigh heavily on them as they consider the transition/franchise tags. As for my opinion of Flacco, I think he's better than Dilfer ever was. I think the Ravens viewed him as a Niel O'Donnell style QB until recently (i.e. a good system QB, but not an elite NFL QB). O'Donnell was good for the Steelers, but the Rooney's didn't have the desire to overpay for his services. Unlike the Steelers though the Ravens don't have another QB waiting in the wings.

With Baltimore's cap position, I don't think its a sure thing the Ravens transition/franchise him. As a matter of fact if he loses the Super Bowl the chances of transition/franchising him will diminish greatly. I don't see the Ravens paying a QB $10-$12M/yr who just lost the Super Bowl. Furthermore, I believe ole' brother Jim and the 49'ers will probably give the Ravens a sweatheart deal for Alex Smith. Alex Smith isn't a upgrade in my view...he's a cheaper alternative.

The Ravens are just going to let him walk with nothing else at the position.

OK.

Just stop.

Zombo

--He's getting a HUGE contract from the RAVENS

@htownbrown said:

I think we have to go after Conner Barwin. The price will be right and despite the drop in sacks he still gets pressure on the qb. Its hard to get to the qb faster than JJ Watt.

I'd say to odds of us getting Barwin are only slightly better than getting Flacco. We'd have to overpay a ton to get him away from the Texans, and if Banner's reputation of being a skinflint is true, that's not happening.

Endymion said:

From what I hear, Baltimore is roughly $15.7M under the cap for 2013. So slapping the franchise tag on Flacco comes with a huge cost, in terms of some of their other promising star players, namely: Ed Reed, Paul Kruger and Arthur Jones. Further, if they can't come to an agreement with Flacco before the start of the season they'll have issues signing their draft picks. In technical terms, the Ravens are more likely to stick the "transition" tag on Flacco which pays QBs $12.85M/yr instead of the franchise tag which pays $14.62M/yr.

Baltimorons are expecting to have Flacco resigned at a contract of roughly $8M to $9M/yr for 5-6 yrs. If Flacco wins the Super Bowl with the way he's been playing, I would expect him to want more than $10M/yr. Hell, even if he loses the Super Bowl I think he will still want more than $10M/yr. He'll probably sign for around $12M/yr. The Browns have the second most salary cap space available at $48.9M/yr. The only other team that can/will compete with you for a Flacco sweepstakes would be Tampa Bay (w/ $31.3M) The other two high cap room teams Cincy and Miami aren't looking for a QB this year.

The Ravens can always play the restructure game and still franchise Flacco. Though I think you're right- $12 million a year would probably get it done. Plus, as I'm sure you know, there's a good chance Ed Reed may head off into the sunset with Ray-Ray if the Crows win the SB. That's $10 million off the cap right there.

Endymion said:

From what I hear, Baltimore is roughly $15.7M under the cap for 2013. So slapping the franchise tag on Flacco comes with a huge cost, in terms of some of their other promising star players, namely: Ed Reed, Paul Kruger and Arthur Jones. Further, if they can't come to an agreement with Flacco before the start of the season they'll have issues signing their draft picks. In technical terms, the Ravens are more likely to stick the "transition" tag on Flacco which pays QBs $12.85M/yr instead of the franchise tag which pays $14.62M/yr.

Baltimorons are expecting to have Flacco resigned at a contract of roughly $8M to $9M/yr for 5-6 yrs. If Flacco wins the Super Bowl with the way he's been playing, I would expect him to want more than $10M/yr. Hell, even if he loses the Super Bowl I think he will still want more than $10M/yr. He'll probably sign for around $12M/yr. The Browns have the second most salary cap space available at $48.9M/yr. The only other team that can/will compete with you for a Flacco sweepstakes would be Tampa Bay (w/ $31.3M) The other two high cap room teams Cincy and Miami aren't looking for a QB this year.

The Browns may not be looking either..any more so than the others you mention.

Still....I think the Ravens will do what they can to keep Flacco...and at a price amenable to him. If they have to make major adjustments to the salaries of other players, so be it.

I just think that between Biscotti and Ozzie Newsome they will figure a way to keep their Super Bowl QB...

........unless, you/they think that Flacco is nothing more that a modern day Trent Dilfer....a game manager QB who is merely a replaceable cog in their machine.

Oddly, before about the middle of this year, I would have take that stance. Now, however, I have a lot more respect for what Flacco can do, so I personally do not see him as a Dilfer 2.0.

@the-gipper said:

Again, Shrike, you miss the fact that it is NOT a completely free market for Flacco.

Is there any reason on earth that the Rats would NOT put the franchise tag on Flacco?

The average of those top 5 is 14.7 million dollars.

From what I hear, Baltimore is roughly $15.7M under the cap for 2013. So slapping the franchise tag on Flacco comes with a huge cost, in terms of some of their other promising star players, namely: Ed Reed, Paul Kruger and Arthur Jones. Further, if they can't come to an agreement with Flacco before the start of the season they'll have issues signing their draft picks. In technical terms, the Ravens are more likely to stick the "transition" tag on Flacco which pays QBs $12.85M/yr instead of the franchise tag which pays $14.62M/yr.

Baltimorons are expecting to have Flacco resigned at a contract of roughly $8M to $9M/yr for 5-6 yrs. If Flacco wins the Super Bowl with the way he's been playing, I would expect him to want more than $10M/yr. Hell, even if he loses the Super Bowl I think he will still want more than $10M/yr. He'll probably sign for around $12M/yr. The Browns have the second most salary cap space available at $48.9M/yr. The only other team that can/will compete with you for a Flacco sweepstakes would be Tampa Bay (w/ $31.3M) The other two high cap room teams Cincy and Miami aren't looking for a QB this year.

Endymion said:

Joe Flacco should be the Browns #1 priority this off-season (assuming the Ravens don't franchise him), for the reasons stated above. The Ravens (not the Steelers) are the biggest obstacle for any AFC North team to tackle, to win the division. The Ravens chances of retaining the division crown without Ray-Ray and Flacco would be highly improbable. The Browns chances of claiming the division title and/or a play-off spot would be greatly enhanced.

Flacco won't come cheap and he's no sure thing. He has put up some impressive numbers this past post-season and he's shown he can roll with the elite QBs of the league. Further, and most importantly, Flacco can get teams to the play-offs, which he has done every year he's been in the league (5 straight now).

Seriously, the Browns can't always be out looking for low-cost free agents. Sometimes you have to take a risk, and what better way for your new owner to win over fans than take Baltimore's coveted QB from them? Even if you fail to make the play-offs in 2013, if you land Flacco, the Browns will be the talk of ever NFL oriented TV show from now until at least 3-4 weeks into the season.

Again, Shrike, you miss the fact that it is NOT a completely free market for Flacco.

Is there any reason on earth that the Rats would NOT put the franchise tag on Flacco? Because then he would have to be paid the average of the top 5 QBs in the league? I believe they think highly enough of them to pay him in that range....and if they don't want to pay him in that range....then they should let him go....and he should be willing to go.

The Top 5 salaries in the NFL for 2013 are scheduled to be as follows:

P. Manning 20 million

Vick 15.5 mill.

Palmer 13 mill.

Eli 13 mill

Rivers 12 mill

The average of those top 5 is 14.7 million dollars. What are Flacco's demands? 15 mill a year? More?

Tom Brady makes only 9.75 mill. Why in hell should any of these guys make more than Brady?

I expect that the Rats will probably negotiate a 15 mill a year deal, scaling up to 20 mill. over say 3 years.

If they don't....and they don't franchise Flacco...then sure, maybe the Browns should make that offer.

Endymion said:

Seriously, the Browns can't always be out looking for low-cost free agents. Sometimes you have to take a risk,

STFU.

We have a new owner, a new CEO, a new GM and a new HC ... and you come over here saying we can't "always" do something. You are absolutely Retarded. You are the typical Steeler fan that thinks because you watch a franchise that is more successful that YOU therefore, know more about football than fans of of non-successful teams.

That's Retarded. You're Retarded. And I apologize to all those offended by "Retarded". But he's Retarded.

The absolute shame of sports is that the best, most knowledgeable fans are usually those of the "lovable losers" ... Browns, Cubs, Trail Blazers, Maple leafs, ... while the front-running loud-mouth Steeler, Yankee, Laker fans get treated to quality teams.

Joe Flacco is re-signing with Baltimore. If he doesn't, I will let you change my screen name to whatever you'd like it be.

Zombo

@represent said:

My link

Free Agents to Target: If for some strange reason the Baltimore Ravens aren't able to convince Joe Flacco to sign a long-term deal, the Browns could step in with a big offer for him. That would elevate the Browns offense and cripple the Ravens in one big move. The likelihood though is that Flacco returns to the Ravens.Da Faq? biggest FA move since LBJ Left Us

Joe Flacco should be the Browns #1 priority this off-season (assuming the Ravens don't franchise him), for the reasons stated above. The Ravens (not the Steelers) are the biggest obstacle for any AFC North team to tackle, to win the division. The Ravens chances of retaining the division crown without Ray-Ray and Flacco would be highly improbable. The Browns chances of claiming the division title and/or a play-off spot would be greatly enhanced.

Flacco won't come cheap and he's no sure thing. He has put up some impressive numbers this past post-season and he's shown he can roll with the elite QBs of the league. Further, and most importantly, Flacco can get teams to the play-offs, which he has done every year he's been in the league (5 straight now).

Seriously, the Browns can't always be out looking for low-cost free agents. Sometimes you have to take a risk, and what better way for your new owner to win over fans than take Baltimore's coveted QB from them? Even if you fail to make the play-offs in 2013, if you land Flacco, the Browns will be the talk of ever NFL oriented TV show from now until at least 3-4 weeks into the season.

@represent said:

My link

B/R Article every nfl team free agency needs.

For those to lazy to go find the Browns.

The Cleveland Browns have to determine if they want to continue to roll with Brandon Weeden as their starting quarterback, or if they will bring in somebody to compete with him for the job. The Browns have turned over their front office, so that means there might be some major personnel changes as the new regime assesses what they have to work with.

Michael Lombardi will handle player personnel, and Rob Chudzinski will take over as the new head coach. With Norv Turner coming in as offensive coordinator, you would have to think that the Browns offense will improve in 2013.

Team Needs - Browns need to improve on both sides of the ball. The overall offense was No. 25 in the NFL, while the overall defense was No. 23. The Browns averaged 18.9 points per game, which was good for No. 24 in the league.

The Browns need to try to sign Phil Dawson to a new contract. He continues to excel and can be the difference in winning two or three extra games per year based on his long-range field goals.

Salary cap space left to work with: Cleveland is $48.9 million under the salary cap. That is the second-best figure in the NFL and it means that the Browns should be active in bringing in some talented free agents this offseason. The Browns will be the envy of a number of GM's around the league.

With $48.9 million available, the Browns can literally target anybody they want to sign. New owner Jimmy Haslam wants to bring a winner to Cleveland, so he can show the fans that he means business in free agency.

Free Agents to Target: If for some strange reason the Baltimore Ravens aren't able to convince Joe Flacco to sign a long-term deal, the Browns could step in with a big offer for him. That would elevate the Browns offense and cripple the Ravens in one big move. The likelihood though is that Flacco returns to the Ravens.Da Faq? biggest FA move since LBJ Left Us

Other quarterbacks that could become free agents in 2013 would be Michael Vick and Matt Flynn. Alex Smith is another possibility. Any of the three could take over as the starter.

The Browns could now afford to sprinkle in some talented veteran players to help guide the youngsters, which is the formula the Indianapolis Colts used so well this year. Targets could include WR Dwayne Bowe, Greg Jennings or Wes Welker. Dustin Keller could be an attractive tight end target.

Flacco isnt going anywhere, if they cant sign him theyll franchise him. Flynn sucks and I think Vick will stay in Philly with Chip (Wouldnt want him if he did leave). Bowe is the same type of reciever as Little and Gordon build wise so I wouldnt want to give him big money, Id love Jennings but he says he wants warm weather or a dome, and Welker will want big money and hes getting old and may be purely a Brady/Belichek product (Id stay away). I think Id rather resign Watson than grab Keller. I think we should pursue Felton at FB and a G for offense. And on D is where the majority of our free cap space will go. Between 3 new OLB's maybe 2 CB's and 2 S's we have tons of spots to fill.