@dencyguy said:

As overt a message as it was, Dennis, I can't believe you're the first to comment.

@pumpkin-eater said:

RUMORS... Mike Tomlin isn't one to Piss off.... Beliveland , You guys will Believe anything.

AdaM said:

Sure. It's actually a funny (now it's funny-it wasn't really funny then) story. I was in a freshman theology class and one day I put my head down because I had a killer headache and the teacher stopped the entire class, shut off the lights and came over to rub my neck. It was horribly embarrassing and my classmates never let me hear the end of it. Let's just say that I never had a headache in that class ever again.

@brownsfan17 said:

I do wonder about that nun who used to want to rub my neck when I said I had a headache though...

Care to elaborate?

@dencyguy said:

Dennis

Maybe it's because I went to a Catholic school, but...<shudder>...I need to go lie down.

I agree about the creepiness. I also attended Catholic School for a few years however being a girl did have it's advantages....

I do wonder about that nun who used to want to rub my neck when I said I had a headache though...

@dencyguy said:

Dennis

Maybe it's because I went to a Catholic school, but...<shudder>...I need to go lie down.

It is pretty creepy. I went to Catholic school as well and was an alter boy. Fortunately I never had any incidents though.

Dennis

Maybe it's because I went to a Catholic school, but...<shudder>...I need to go lie down.

@yeahdaisafuturehofer... said:

Recently yes. And in the history of the rivalry, it's been an abusive relationship the other way as well.

Masters said:

Its still considered a rivalry but an abusive relationship better describes its recent history.

@yeahdaisafuturehofer... said:

Funny, Hines Ward would disagree. "Cleveland and Pittsburgh is a rivalry itself". And he said that leading up to the BALT playoff game. I have to ask, how long have you actually been a Steelers fan?

@dencyguy said:

Dennis

The Browns owned the Steelers fro much of the late 80's as well. But all I am saying is that CLE vs. PIT is a long standing rivalry. It isn't like IND vs. TEN or IND vs. JAX, where it only showed up a few years ago when both started fighting for division titles.

There have been many times over the years that one team has owned the other. That's what happens in rivalries. Even after us being so bad these past ten years, your team is still only a few games ahead of us in the head-to-head record so stop making it sound like it's always been so one-sided. As you said later in this post - why are you chosing to just look at recent history and not all of it?

You may have interpreted that I said that the Steelers always have been the Browns. Although, I never meant to imply that. In recent years it has been a pretty pathetic rivaly. As Steeler fans, we consider the Ravens and Pats more of rivals today becuase its always a hard hitting and close game. You Browns fans may think playing the Steelers is still a heated rivaly, but the Steelers don't.

The Steelers have NEVER asked our qbs to be a Manning or Brady becuase thats not the kind of system we run. Ben not putting up big numbers just means he is a perfect fit with the system. You not understanding thats seems to point you aren't fully aware of how the Steelers are run. You would know this though if you followed the rivavlry as long as you claimed. Bens ask to win games and thats exactly what he does!

My point is this. They have been times when you have asked him to do that and he has not done it well so your offense plays to his strengths which is managing the game. It's not right or wrong - it just may make the difference on whether or not he will be considered one of the best or H.O.F. material.

If you give Parker and Ward credit when we win, shouldn't they also be blamed for the loss? Yeah, of course, Ben has bad games but that doesn't keep you out of the HOF. Every QB has lost a big game.

Obviously, if you want to win the Super Bowl you have to have a good defense. In the 4th quarter he just goes to the next level and gets it done in the clutch. Thats all on him. Not the D, not the coach, and not the running back.

Are you telling me that you give no credit to Hines Ward or Willie Parker (for example) for assisting him?

See above.... If you watch Ben, he will often make plays when nothing is there. Yeah, someone catches the ball, but Ben is just on the next level at times.

Many have accused the Steelers have cheated but they are the same people who don't back up their claim with facts. They say in with emotion and not intellect.

Many have accused the Patriots of winning Super Bowls because of their cheating even though most experts agree that it had nothing to do with it. They even went 18-0 after being "caught". So are you answering with emotion or intellect?

I want you and the so called "experts" to answer this following question. If the Patriots didn't gain an advantage from taping singals, why do it? One good season in which you made the SB and lost doesn't count as a dynasty, does it? Teams copy great, long term success. Not one hit wonders.

They cheated in their three Super Bowl wins... Steelers are consistantly good. Take away a capable QB from the Pats and you take away any chance at the playoffs. Steelers don't put that kind of responsibility on a single player becuase its too risky. Steelers win so often becuase one player having a bad game doesn't destroy the entire game plan. Why are you chosing to just look at recent history and not all of it?

OK, now your are talking a bunch of crap. Tom Brady is more than just a capable QB - he is the best QB in the NFL and even after losing him and subbing in a QB who hadn't started a game since high school they still won 11 games.

By saying "capable" I didn't mean thats all Brady is. He is more then capable. Although, for something to function properly (like an NFL offense) they need all their parts to be capable. If Warner went to the Pats, there is no reason to not believe they still wouldn't always be a playoff contender. His style is more then capable of running the Pats offense. Although, if the Pats qb was someone like Ken Dorsey, then the Pats would probably looking at a top ten pick. Their team is build around a high powered passing offense. If you don't have a qb, then you have disaster.

Now look at the Steelers. We had some pretty good teams in the mid-90's and early part of this millenium. That success had mostly to do with the defense and running game. The Steelers back then were good but not great enough for a Super Bowl. Thats becuase when it was the QB's turn to do his part, Maddox, Kordell, and O'neil usually where not doing their job. Notice now that we have Ben we made the AFC Tittle game 3 times in 5 years. Winning two of them and even winning the Super Bowl. When Ben had to step up to the plate he is known for doing his duty. With the Steelers system you can have success while lacking a good qb. With the Steelers system, you still need a capable qb for great success. His probowl, Super Bowl appearences, and great early stats for a QB operating the Steelers system is proof Ben isn't only capable of doing his job, but winning games on his arm.

Masters said:

One minor quibble, even though it's one I hate to make...like the Steelers pre-Noll, the Browns can only play the "expansion team" card for two years, three tops--although I'm inclined to say two based on free agency. The other eight years have just been the Steelers beating a team that sucks.

Dennis

Masters said:

They dont want to understand. Buttt the Browns will soon retake the lead and then they will be crying.

There is a Great Idea....

@yeahdaisafuturehofer... said:

There have been many times over the years that one team has owned the other. That's what happens in rivalries. Even after us being so bad these past ten years, your team is still only a few games ahead of us in the head-to-head record so stop making it sound like it's always been so one-sided. As you said later in this post - why are you chosing to just look at recent history and not all of it?

The Steelers have NEVER asked our qbs to be a Manning or Brady becuase thats not the kind of system we run. Ben not putting up big numbers just means he is a perfect fit with the system. You not understanding thats seems to point you aren't fully aware of how the Steelers are run. You would know this though if you followed the rivavlry as long as you claimed. Bens ask to win games and thats exactly what he does!

My point is this. They have been times when you have asked him to do that and he has not done it well so your offense plays to his strengths which is managing the game. It's not right or wrong - it just may make the difference on whether or not he will be considered one of the best or H.O.F. material.

Obviously, if you want to win the Super Bowl you have to have a good defense. In the 4th quarter he just goes to the next level and gets it done in the clutch. Thats all on him. Not the D, not the coach, and not the running back.

Are you telling me that you give no credit to Hines Ward or Willie Parker (for example) for assisting him?

Many have accused the Steelers have cheated but they are the same people who don't back up their claim with facts. They say in with emotion and not intellect.

Many have accused the Patriots of winning Super Bowls because of their cheating even though most experts agree that it had nothing to do with it. They even went 18-0 after being "caught". So are you answering with emotion or intellect?

They cheated in their three Super Bowl wins... Steelers are consistantly good. Take away a capable QB from the Pats and you take away any chance at the playoffs. Steelers don't put that kind of responsibility on a single player becuase its too risky. Steelers win so often becuase one player having a bad game doesn't destroy the entire game plan. Why are you chosing to just look at recent history and not all of it>

OK, now your are talking a bunch of crap. Tom Brady is more than just a capable QB - he is the best QB in the NFL and even after losing him and subbing in a QB who hadn't started a game since high school they still won 11 games.

@yeahdaisafuturehofer... said:

By your logic it wasn't a rivalry when CLE was beating PIT for decades either. After all, PIT needed 10 years against an expansion team to tie up the all time record. It is and always will be a rivalry because it is one of the oldest in the NFL. It's been passed down for generations on both sides.

@holmes10_ward_86 said:

Everyone has an opinion, or a complaint I guess. But let's be honest, if a Steelers fan didn't come on to the board and instantly reply to one of those comments from a Browns fans, those lines about steroids and refs calls would be far smaller. Just like there would be less Steelers fan comments if people didn't have to instantly respond to a thread making fun of CLE or the Browns.

To me, all the trash talk belongs only in the two weeks leading up to the Browns vs. Steelers games.

It hasn't been a heated rivalry the past decade. Some of you guys are taking this rivalry to the borderline of stupidity.

Obviously, if you don't understand it then you are either really young or a bandwagon fan. Which is it?

Okay, when exactly did I say I didn't understand what a rivalry is? Steelers have had a heated rivalry with the Ravens the past decade. When the Steelers and Browns play, its less of a rivalry and more of an abusive relationship.

The Steelers win because of their defense - not because of Ben - and sometimes in spite of him (like SB40 for example). I don't think anybody (except the Steelers fans) are ready to put him in the H.O.F. yet.

No, we don't ask Ben to throw 30+ passes and 3+ touchdowns a game, but that doesn't mean he isn't good.

You don't ask him to because he isn't good at it. He is a game manager. My point is that he will never be a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady (shoe-ins for the H.O.F.)

The Steelers have NEVER asked our qbs to be a Manning or Brady becuase thats not the kind of system we run. Ben not putting up big numbers just means he is a perfect fit with the system. You not understanding thats seems to point you aren't fully aware of how the Steelers are run. You would know this though if you followed the rivavlry as long as you claimed. Bens ask to win games and thats exactly what he does!

We just ask him to win games. Do you remember the game this year when Steelers played Cowboys and Ravens(The 2nd meeting? Ben won both those games with amazing fourth quarter comebacks. You point out Ben's poor stats in SB XL, (although he did do enough to win) but you don't point out his stats in the three away playoff games leading up to the SB in which Ben throw 2+ against the three best teams in the AFC. Ben is on pass to break every Steeler passing record and have most 4th quarter/OT comeback wins in NFL history.

Could having the stingiest D have helped with that? It's a hell of alot easier to come back when the other team isn't scoring.

Obviously, if you want to win the Super Bowl you have to have a good defense. In the 4th quarter he just goes to the next level and gets it done in the clutch. Thats all on him. Not the D, not the coach, and not the running back.

(Surpassing Elway, who currently is #1) Steelers have one of if not the best strategy for running an NFL team. (We are expected to have more SB win then anyother team in less then one week. I'll take SB wins over 4,000 passing yards ine 5 consecutive seaons. Not many Steeler fans thinks he is HOF material yet, but winning his second SB this week and playing like he has his first five years will get him in for sure.

We seem to be trying to copy a winning team and it isn't the Steelers. It's the Patriots, which have been the far more successful team this past decade, so we'll see how that turns out.

Patriots= Won three SBs while cheating

Steelers= Won five SBS (expected to have six) without cheating.

Cheating? Don't be a hypocrite. Many have said the same about the Steelers.

Many have accused the Steelers have cheated but they are the same people who don't back up their claim with facts. They say in with emotion and not intellect.

Belichick is a good coach to copy off of (minus the cheating and lack of class) to build a winning dynasty. Steelers are a good team to copy for long term success. If you can successfully copy either, you will have a good team. But how can you say the Patriots have a much better plan for success then the Steelers?

In the past 15 years:

Patriots - 5 trips to the SB. Won 3 times. Went 16-0.

Steelers - 3 trips to SB. Won 1 (maybe 2 - we'll see).

Both impressive but the Pats are obviously superior.

They cheated in their three Super Bowl wins... Steelers are consistantly good. Take away a capable QB from the Pats and you take away any chance at the playoffs. Steelers don't put that kind of responsibility on a single player becuase its too risky. Steelers win so often becuase one player having a bad game doesn't destroy the entire game plan. Why are you chosing to just look at recent history and not all of it>

Masters said:

At the end of the day, PIT doesn't get any more or less calls from refs than any other team.

Exactly Masters excellent points so tell your fellow Browns fans on here to quit whining and bitching constantly about the refs always giving the Steelers calls and saying it's the only reason the Steelers win games.

At the end of the day, PIT doesn't get any more or less calls from refs than any other team.