@miktoxic said:

^agree 100%.

also i've seen mentioned a couple times here and in other threads that colt will wind up being the backup in green bay. why would they want mccoy when their offense right now is predicated on the vertical passing game and as we know mccoy doesn't possess those skills?

Green Bay's passing offense is more heavily predicated on flooding the secondary at every level and having the QB make the right choice. You will rarely, if ever, see a passing play from them where they target a single area with multiple routes a la New England or Denver.

They have has the benefit of having two successive strong armed and accurate QBs as starters, but all that is really required is having tremendous football intelligence and good decision making skills. Their backups have been Graham Harrell and Matt Flynn, two QBs with less than stellar arm strength but with a great grasp of their offensive philosophy.

Colt would fit in well there. If we had adapted their offensive philosophy, I would have loved to see Colt become our starter. That is a situation I believe he will thrive in.

Also -- Hey, Browns front office: Stop starting undrafted rookie FA's at free safety. No.

What the Fuck? T. Gipson is Hall of Fame caliber....for his name if nothing else.

@unsympathetic said:

Browns have been entertaining trade offers for McCoy since 2 years ago, and have received exactly zero offers.

I hope absolutely nothing is done this offseason -- because the available QB talent is simply not there to merit the resources. Moore and Manuel simply aren't upgrades -- keep talking them up as much as anyone wants, but consistency is absolutely nonexistant.

Next year, however, four QB's will go in the top ten picks : Bridgewater, Manziel, Boyd, and David Fales from San Jose State.

The point is NOT that I like our current roster. The point is that the Browns have only a set amount of resources, and I want the Browns to pursue players that will give the greatest improvements in [ (Dollars spent) / (INCREASE in performance achieved from our current roster) ]

If we get the BEST available FA LB and DB, we'll have a much better team in 2012 than if we flop QB's and keep the same LB/DB. We have the cap space today to sign Paul Kruger, Phillip Wheeler, Dashon Goldson [FS], and Keenan Lewis.

Also -- Hey, Browns front office: Stop starting undrafted rookie FA's at free safety. No.

^agree 100%.

also i've seen mentioned a couple times here and in other threads that colt will wind up being the backup in green bay. why would they want mccoy when their offense right now is predicated on the vertical passing game and as we know mccoy doesn't possess those skills?

@unsympathetic said:

Browns have been entertaining trade offers for McCoy since 2 years ago, and have received exactly zero offers.

I hope absolutely nothing is done this offseason -- because the available QB talent is simply not there to merit the resources. Moore and Manuel simply aren't upgrades -- keep talking them up as much as anyone wants, but consistency is absolutely nonexistant.

Next year, however, four QB's will go in the top ten picks : Bridgewater, Manziel, Boyd, and David Fales from San Jose State.

The point is NOT that I like our current roster. The point is that the Browns have only a set amount of resources, and I want the Browns to pursue players that will give the greatest improvements in [ (Dollars spent) / (INCREASE in performance achieved from our current roster) ]

If we get the BEST available FA LB and DB, we'll have a much better team in 2012 than if we flop QB's and keep the same LB/DB. We have the cap space today to sign Paul Kruger, Phillip Wheeler, Dashon Goldson [FS], and Keenan Lewis.

Also -- Hey, Browns front office: Stop starting undrafted rookie FA's at free safety. No.

Manuel was suggested as a project QB, not as a replacement starter for what we have on the roster.

I fully expect Weeden to be the starter this season, all season. No DA, no Moore. It will be Weeden.

I hope absolutely nothing is done this offseason -- because the available QB talent is simply not there to merit the resources. Moore and Manuel simply aren't upgrades -- keep talking them up as much as anyone wants, but consistency is absolutely nonexistant.

Next year, however, four QB's will go in the top ten picks : Bridgewater, Manziel, Boyd, and David Fales from San Jose State.

The point is NOT that I like our current roster. The point is that the Browns have only a set amount of resources, and I want the Browns to pursue players that will give the greatest improvements in [ (Dollars spent) / (INCREASE in performance achieved from our current roster) ]

If we get the BEST available FA LB and DB, we'll have a much better team in 2012 than if we flop QB's and keep the same LB/DB. We have the cap space today to sign Paul Kruger, Phillip Wheeler, Dashon Goldson [FS], and Keenan Lewis.

Also -- Hey, Browns front office: Stop starting undrafted rookie FA's at free safety. No.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Actually, Colt comes out and heaves a 30 yard pass to Little on the right sideline, impressing the coaching staff. He looks at Weeden and says "Hows that for arm strength?"

Weeden trots onto the field, picks Colt up and throws him to Green Bay, where he lands as the backup QB.

Setting the stage for none other but...

Enter the fucking dragon.

@hunt-daddy said:

And then the training camp battle goes like this.

McCoy comes out and dunks it down to Trent Richardson's feet. Weeden throws the ball down the field once and wins the starting job.

Actually, Colt comes out and heaves a 30 yard pass to Little on the right sideline, impressing the coaching staff. He looks at Weeden and says "Hows that for arm strength?"

Weeden trots onto the field, picks Colt up and throws him to Green Bay, where he lands as the backup QB.

McCoy comes out and dunks it down to Trent Richardson's feet. Weeden throws the ball down the field once and wins the starting job.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

The meeting went "you're gone. You know it, I know it. Tell me where you want to go and I'll see if I can make it happen."

Correction: The meeting went- "Colt, we're really sorry about how the last coach treated you. We know all about you and your budding development, all we can ask is for you to come out in training camp and give us your all, and in return we'll give you an honest chance at regaining your position... since Weeden was obviously a reach from the last regime. Boy!, they really wiffed on that old man, huh?"

Soon after the Browns named Rob Chudzinski as the teams new head-coach, it was reported that he and Colt McCoy had a closed-door meeting at the teams facility in Berea. Yes McCoy and Chud sat down and had a talk. Reports have swirled since Jimmy Haslam III took ownership of the team that he liked Colt McCoy. The former team president Mike Holmgren always said he liked Colt McCoy too. Liking a player and giving him the starting quarterback position doesn’t seem to go hand in hand in Cleveland.

Many believe is was Shurmur’s dislike of McCoy that got him side-lined last season. The team said there was going to be an honest quarterback competition to name the teams starter in 2012, but if you saw McCoy’s interview on the news, you would know the team never really had any competition, they handed the starting role to Weeden and McCoy was pissed about it. This season the team has a different leadership in place. The fans have become completely confused about how good Brandon Weeden really is.

The facts are the facts and the facts point to the fact that Weeden didn’t out play McCoy in the 2012 season. In 2011, McCoy threw 14 touchdowns for the Browns and he did it in only 13 games played. Weeden threw 14 touchdowns in 15 games in 2012. It took Weeden 2 more games to match the touchdown’s McCoy threw in 2011 with less of a team around him. Weeden threw 17 interceptions in those 15 games. McCoy only threw 11 in the 13 games he played in 2011.

Weeden’s quarterback rating was lower than that of McCoy’s in the 2011 season. Weeden had a rating of 72.6 last season while McCoy ad a rating of 85.2 in 2012, 74.6 in 2011 and 74.5 in 2010. Never has Colt McCoy had a lower Q.B. rating than Brandon Weeden. Now there are a lot of fans saying things like; The Browns scored more points in 2012 than they did in 2011. Sure they did, but they only had one more win and that sucks. There were better players on the 2012 roster than McCoy had to work with in 2011 and the results still sucked.

You can ignore all the numbers you want when it comes to the 2 Cleveland quarterbacks. The thing people who really understand the game of football cannot ignore is football mentality. Brandon Weeden doesn’t have the same football mentality that Colt McCoy has. McCoy understand the defense better than Weeden does and we heard from the Browns number one draft pick in 2012 (3rd Overall) stating that Weeden doesn’t read the defense properly.

If anyone thinks that Colt McCoy is just going to roll over and die this training camp, you are mistaken. If the Brown really have a quarterback competition this summer, you better expect McCoy to come out swinging. He isn’t going down with out a fight and I think Chud and McCoy both understand each other. It would have been great to be a fly on the wall during the meeting behind closed doors the 2 men had……

@unsympathetic said:

No. One thousand times no. Manuel is your definition of a project QB - he's ridiculously inconsistent and would not win the backup job from McCoy. He did nothing at the combine.

As to the rest of this thread: Browns have entertained offers for McCoy for 2 years now and have received a grand total of zilch.

Were you watching the same combine as the rest of us?

Manuel would win the job over McCoy the moment he was drafted because he can throw the ball further than 15 yards down the field.

McCoy doesn't fit in this system. It's plain and simple.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

and try and land EJ Manuel in the second

No. One thousand times no. Manuel is your definition of a project QB - he's ridiculously inconsistent and would not win the backup job from McCoy. He did nothing at the combine.

As to the rest of this thread: Browns have entertained offers for McCoy for 2 years now and have received a grand total of zilch.

Zombo said:

Weeden really disappointed in the last half of 2012 ... but he'll get another chance because he does indeed have an NFL elite gun.

Zombo

OMG. When did Shep return to our Board? Are you going to start talking about RPMs and the "it" factor?

@miktoxic said:

reading that report makes me think of DA.

Not necessarily Mik. Another team dumbed down the offense a hell of a lot for a rookie in his first year- Rothlisberger.

Also, Weeden doesn't strike me as being that stupid, plus his attitude is way better than DA's ever was. Weeden couldn't read the defense, or was it Shur-loss' running such a predictable offense, the other team knew what was coming before the ball was snapped?

@miktoxic said:

reading that report makes me think of DA.

Me too, that's what scares me. You can have all the physical tools in the world, but if you can't recognize what the defense is doing then it won't matter.

I just hope that's not the case, and that he was just experiencing the rookie learning curve.

Zombo said:

Exactly. He's got to be smart and very, very accurate.

If they got a big arm, a la Joe Flacco ... then you are more patient with their mistakes because of the upside.

Which is why I think Chud will give Weeds every opportunity to win the job, they want a gun in the Norv offense.

If mcCoy was going to succeed, it would have been in Shurmur's WCO, but he wasn't accurate enough, we all saw that the last half of 2011.

Weeden really disappointed in the last half of 2012 ... but he'll get another chance because he does indeed have an NFL elite gun.

Zombo

Interesting read on Weeden today.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- NFL Network's Steve Wyche said running back Trent Richardson told him today that he really likes quarterback Brandon Weeden, but that Weeden struggled to read defenses at times last season, and that the Browns had to dial down their offense because of it.

The brief off-camera chat with Wyche came in the break just after Richardson was interviewed on NFL AM from the Scouting Combine in Indianapolis.

Wyche said Richardson first told him how excited he is to work with new offensive coordinator Norv Turner, because Turner likes to feature his backs, such as LaDainian Tomlinson.

"He also told me a little bit more about Brandon Weeden,'' Wyche told co-host Mark Kriegel. "He said as a rookie, (Weeden) really had trouble reading defenses from time to time and they had to skew their offense a little bit, sometimes somewhat predictable. (He) thinks things are going to open up a little bit, but he really does like Brandon Weeden.''

During the on-camera interview, Richardson predicted Weeden will be the starter in 2013.

"I think he'll be my quarterback,'' Richardson said. "We can't put too much on Brandon, especially as a rookie. ... We want to make sure he believes, he knows he's going to be our quarterback. When it comes to stuff like that, we've just all got to be behind him.''

Also on-camera, Richardson gave himself a C-plus for his rookie season, in which he rushed for 950 yards and 11 TDs and caught 51 passes for 367 yards and a TD.

"For most people, they say I had a great season, but I think it was OK,'' he said. "I probably say it was a C-plus, something like that. But for me man, I expect more than that. I had 950 rushing, but I did have like 450 in receiving. It's different when it comes to receiving and you lead the team in receptions (actually second) and stuff like that. When you're doing a lot and from playing with broken ribs and having knee surgery before the season, it's big.''

He acknowledged he was never healthy last season.

"The time I was getting healthy, I break a rib and that kind of damaged my mind a little bit,'' he said. "I was like, man, 'I'm just now getting back right and getting my balance on and being able to cut right and stuff like because my first week back (after a preseason scope), I started running Wednesday or Thursday and played on Sunday.''

Richardson said coach Rob Chudzinski has called on him to lead the team in 2013.

"He's telling me he's going to put a big bunch on my back, and he expects me to run on with it,'' Richardson said. "I told him, 'coach, I'm going to be in the best shape you know I can be and if you want me to be a leader this year, I'll be a team captain, a leader, whatever it takes to be that guy.''

He said he has his sights on the playoffs this season.

"For the most part, I'm pretty sure that we're going to be a playoff team,'' he said. "I expect it. We are hoping, and we are knowing that we are going to be there next year.''

Richardson was not immediately available for comment. The Plain Dealer has left messages with the Browns media relations department in an effort to reach Richardson.

I like Weeden. I like his skill set and I like his intangibles. He's got the right tools to do very well in Chud's offense.

But this report is disconcerting. I understand it was his rookie year, but to hear that they had to dumb down an offense that was already pretty dumbed down isn't the best news.

This draft is tricky, tricky, tricky. I'd really like us to stay at home and take Jones or Jordan at #6, but I would also like to see us trade back and pick up another pick or two and try and land EJ Manuel in the second.

He would be a great project QB to sit behind Weeden for two years and learn from Norv.

But we're not necessarily in the position to be able to do that. Taking a project QB is a luxury, not a necessity.

@the-gipper said:

The problem is that a player without the arm strength leaves no margin for error.

Exactly. He's got to be smart and very, very accurate.

If they got a big arm, a la Joe Flacco ... then you are more patient with their mistakes because of the upside.

Which is why I think Chud will give Weeds every opportunity to win the job, they want a gun in the Norv offense.

If mcCoy was going to succeed, it would have been in Shurmur's WCO, but he wasn't accurate enough, we all saw that the last half of 2011.

Weeden really disappointed in the last half of 2012 ... but he'll get another chance because he does indeed have an NFL elite gun.

Zombo

Zombo said:

His arm is considered weak for NFL starter standards. He has plenty of zip for arena league and his other assets make him a viable NFL backup.

Scouts have repeatedly remarked that he lacks preferred NFL arm strength, and there are many lists out there, by non-Browns fans, that list him at, or near, the bottom of the rankings of NFL QB's arms.

Plus ... we've all seen him play.

Now if you want argue that he is capable of having a good career as an NFL starter despite his arm strength then, sure, guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick and Andy Dalton don't have cannons, and there is everybody's favorite example, Chud Pennington.

But if you want to say that his arm strength is on par for the average NFL starter ... you are floating down De Nile.

Zombo

There have been successful QBs who have not had tremendous arm strength....see the aforementioned Chud Pennington...and Joe Montana ...and our own Brian Sipe. The problem is that a player without the arm strength leaves no margin for error. Colt's precision has been nowhere near that of those other guys so it appears that he falls short.

@roach said:

Guys, please stop with the McCoy weak arm BS. You all are smart enough to know he wouldn't even be in the Arena League if he had a weak arm. If you don't like him- fine. But come up with a different reason. The weak arm stuff is just lame.

His arm is considered weak for NFL starter standards. He has plenty of zip for arena league and his other assets make him a viable NFL backup.

Scouts have repeatedly remarked that he lacks preferred NFL arm strength, and there are many lists out there, by non-Browns fans, that list him at, or near, the bottom of the rankings of NFL QB's arms.

Plus ... we've all seen him play.

Now if you want argue that he is capable of having a good career as an NFL starter despite his arm strength then, sure, guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick and Andy Dalton don't have cannons, and there is everybody's favorite example, Chad Pennington.

But if you want to say that his arm strength is on par for the average NFL starter ... you are floating down De Nile.

Zombo

@dawgdamit said:

I believe they are going with Weeden for 2013, Going to diffinately pick up a QB, To strengthen that position up.

If we could trade down and get a second, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing us go for EJ Manuel.