@poeticg said:

Found this on Vontaze Burfict... I won't say how I practically begged the FO to take this guy the entire draft...

Vontaze Burfict was a stud linebacker during his college career at Arizona State, but the projected first-round pick came into the 2012 NFL Combine with some baggage after being pegged as a hothead. He did himself no favors at the Combine, running an uber-slow 5.09 40-Yard Dash and reportedly blaming his coaches for his up and down junior season in team interviews.

Burfict went completely undrafted after the Combine, a shock for a guy who was once considered one of the top three linebackers in the 2012 draft. Burfict signed on with the Cincinnati Bengals, where he would start 14 games and lead the team in tackles with 127. He’s also been incident-free during his time in the NFL. Sometimes you’ve got to dig a little deeper on a guy, and 31 teams whiffed on Burfict.

32 teams DID dig a little deeper on Burfict- including the Bengals, and decided he wasn't worth drafting. Bringing this guy in as a UFA was a zero risk proposition for the team that annually leads the league in arrests.

From ESPN, to refresh your memory.

"He was a time bomb in shoulder pads, a personal foul waiting to happen when faced with the slightest provocation. In 37 college games, Burfict was hit with unsportsmanlike conduct penalties 22 times.

Burfict's NFL combine should be a training tape on how not to find a job in pro football. He ran the 40-yard dash in a time that would embarrass a left guard (5.09 seconds). He was fat, unfocused and too willing to blame a disappointing junior season on his Arizona State coaches."

Hindsight's always 20\20 PG. For every Burfict there's a Chris Henry, or Jerome Simpson.

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I don't see it that way, though. Burfict may have very well only succeeded BECAUSE he was overlooked, and fell out of the draft.

It surely was a gigantic wake up call to who he was as a person - and that's what it took for him to get his mind right. Who knows.

We've still got Lauvao at RG, and if Barrett Jones is still there in the 3rd, I really rather have him.

Also Moore/USC or Wilson/WSU at WR would be great value at that spot.

We do need a new CB starter, but there will be starter-level CB's available at the top of the 4th.

@unsympathetic said:

Incorrect. He CANNOT cover. He simply took ridiculously unsound chances because he had Morris Claiborne shutting down the other receiver, and brandon taylor at safety [3rd round, Chargers, 2012] over the top. Even the other safety, craig loston, is also NFL-caliber. In 2010, he was just the 3rd cornerback - with Claiborne and Peterson as the starting CB's.

To recap: He's slow. He's weak. He's small. And of LSU's starting DB's the one year he started, he was the only one they should have attacked, because the other 3 were near the top in the nation at their position.

In the NFL, he is the guy other teams will iso attack every play until he's subbed out, because the only thing he did to appear NFL-caliber is guess.. so if you force him to play straight-up, he will lose 100% of the time.

Jones' spinal issue is the same one that ended Sterling Sharpe's career, among others. The only thing that's certain about Jones is that his career will be extremely short.

I guess we just disagree. I watch a lot of SEC football, living in the heart of Dixie, and from what I saw he covered pretty well.

Vontaze Burfict was a stud linebacker during his college career at Arizona State, but the projected first-round pick came into the 2012 NFL Combine with some baggage after being pegged as a hothead. He did himself no favors at the Combine, running an uber-slow 5.09 40-Yard Dash and reportedly blaming his coaches for his up and down junior season in team interviews.

Burfict went completely undrafted after the Combine, a shock for a guy who was once considered one of the top three linebackers in the 2012 draft. Burfict signed on with the Cincinnati Bengals, where he would start 14 games and lead the team in tackles with 127. He’s also been incident-free during his time in the NFL. Sometimes you’ve got to dig a little deeper on a guy, and 31 teams whiffed on Burfict.

Back in 2010, Florida Gators cornerback Joe Haden was gearing up for the NFL Combine and looking like a top ten pick in the upcoming Draft. But after he ran a slightly disappointing 4.57 in his 40-Yard Dash, analysts from the NFL Network started second guessing just how good Haden might be. Analyst Bucky Brooks said, ”it’s going to be hard for some scouts to get that 4.57 out of their mind when they think about [Haden] being an elite player. It’s rare for a team to take a guy with that kind of speed as a top 15 or top 10 pick.”

Well, Haden ended up going number seven overall to the Cleveland Browns, but the criticism didn’t stop. Michael Lombardi, writing for NFL.com, stated that ”According to coaches around the league, Browns first-round pick Joe Haden has not been very impressive in camps and might not have enough speed to play corner.”

All Haden did was record 64 tackles and six interceptions his rookie year. Going into his fourth year in the league, Mr. Haden is doing just fine for himself.

You’ve got questions and comments that you submit to the Browns’ official Facebook and Twitter pages. Here’s what I have to say about what you have to say:

Brenin – What do you think are the Browns’ possibilities of taking the LB/DE that they deem the best pass rusher at No. 6, then taking Tyrann Mathieu in the third round to help at corner? I think he’ll be a beast in the league.

Brenin, the good news is that the Browns would appear to have several options to land a quality outside linebacker/defensive end with the sixth overall pick of the draft.

The NFL Scouting Combine seemed to confirm what many player-personnel evaluators around the league believed through last season – that this draft class is fairly deep with edge pass-rushers.

The Combine performances by outside linebackers and/or defensive ends capable of shifting to outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme were mostly strong, demonstrating that they have the exceptional speed, strength, and athleticism that teams covet from players whose primary job is to get to the quarterback.

It’s still early in the process, and we’ll see how the on-campus drills go. But I think the list of likely candidates would include Dion Jordan from Oregon, Jarvis Jones from Georgia, and Ezekiel (Ziggy) Ansah from BYU. Damontre Moore, defensive end from Texas A&M, might have hurt his chances of being a top-10 pick with a poor Combine showing in the strength and speed categories.

Mathieu, a cornerback from LSU, is certainly worth considering in the third round, where the Browns have their second overall pick and where he still could very well be available. He could, as you mentioned, very well be a “beast” in the NFL. But his many off-field problems are a concern.

The cornerback the Browns select first will be chosen with the idea of making an immediate impact at a spot where the Browns need immediate help. It’s reasonable to wonder whether Mathieu is that player because of his history of questionable behavior and because he tends to rely heavily on his aggressiveness and instincts, something NFL quarterbacks would likely have little problem exploiting.

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-Not that I agree that QBs will be able to exploit him but it's relevant, I guess.

@unsympathetic said:

He simply took ridiculously unsound chances because he had Morris Claiborne shutting down the other receiver,

man i was so high on claiborne in last year's draft, but if you take his play in his rookie year is the benchmark for LSU's defensive backfield play and their transition from college to pro, then what a fraud. i myself don't believe that. i think claiborne will be a great NFL player. i think he was given a huge task in his first year under rob ryan and all his gimmicks and quirks.

that being said i also think mathieu will be very good. unsympathetic your argument doesn't hold water. why didn't they pick on mathieu like you suggest they should have? i guess claiborne was next to him when he returned kicks too?

@ballpeen said:

He can cover

Incorrect. He CANNOT cover. He simply took ridiculously unsound chances because he had Morris Claiborne shutting down the other receiver, and brandon taylor at safety [3rd round, Chargers, 2012] over the top. Even the other safety, craig loston, is also NFL-caliber. In 2010, he was just the 3rd cornerback - with Claiborne and Peterson as the starting CB's.

To recap: He's slow. He's weak. He's small. And of LSU's starting DB's the one year he started, he was the only one they should have attacked, because the other 3 were near the top in the nation at their position.

In the NFL, he is the guy other teams will iso attack every play until he's subbed out, because the only thing he did to appear NFL-caliber is guess.. so if you force him to play straight-up, he will lose 100% of the time.

Jones' spinal issue is the same one that ended Sterling Sharpe's career, among others. The only thing that's certain about Jones is that his career will be extremely short.

everybody wants #'s.

this:

then this:

as most of you should know...size isn't everything. HA!!

@hoorta said:

Instincts only get you so far if you don't have enough measurables. And the guy is sorely lacking in two important ones- size and strength.

Here's a hint- against the top 10 wrs in the NFL today, Mathieu will be giving up an average of six inches and 40 pounds. It will turn out badly.

Incidentally, we already have his clone on the roster- Buster Skrine. However, Buster can smoke Honey Badger in the 40.

I wouldn't say Buster is the Honey Badgers clone. Not even close. One played at LSU, one played in Chattanooga. That tells me there are some big differences.

The only thing that concerns me is his off field stuff. At what point do you run the risk? I guess much will unfold as 1 on 1 interviews take place.

As far as any physical limitations, I don't worry so much about those because of the tremendous skills the kid has. He can cover, and he will impact 8-9 games a season returning punts. That isn't to say he will have that many TD returns, but I can see him taking you from inside the 15 to the other side of the 50 that many times.

@clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

Matthieu doesn't have the measurables, he just has the INSTINCTS and ability to cover/create turnovers and the quickness to assist in doing so

Instincts only get you so far if you don't have enough measurables. And the guy is sorely lacking in two important ones- size and strength.

Here's a hint- against the top 10 wrs in the NFL today, Mathieu will be giving up an average of six inches and 40 pounds. It will turn out badly.

Incidentally, we already have his clone on the roster- Buster Skrine. However, Buster can smoke Honey Badger in the 40.

@poeticg said:

Jones in the first, pick up a second and take Teo and with the third take Mathieu... problems solved or problems started?

Jones is the only guy you mentioned I'd consider. AND a big IF depending on what the medical staff thinks.

The only way we pick up a second is if we find someone who wants to trade up to six, and I don't see that happening.

BTW, were you paying any attention in the other threads? About the only plus Teo did at the combine is interview well. A few OL guys were darn near as fast in the 40 than old Manti. The closest he came to facing a "Pro" Offense was the National Championship game- where Chance Warmack (and about everybody else) blew him out of the play- that's when he wasn't taking bad angles, and over-pursuing. ND guys tend to get over-hyped, or have you already forgotten about Brady Quinn?

Hey if the Honey Badger slips to the seventh round, I still wouldn't be interested. Another sucky combine showing. The guy is SMALL, and to top it off posted the worst showing of anyone in the bench press. Guys like our Greg Little (and any other big physical receiver) will run this smurf over, or out jump him by a foot or two. He may have some faint hope of making in in the NFL as a kick returner.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Mathieu wouldn't be a top ten pick if he won the Heisman. You need to look at things more objectively, you act like a twelve year old when you find a player that you like.

Exactly... he's short..not especially fast and weak. He's not getting drafted until day 2 at the earliest.

@poeticg said:

Jones is considered one of the best pure linebackers to come out in a long time.

Teo doesn't suck against NFL competition because he's never faced NFL competition before... and if LJ Fort could play for us I'm sure Teo would dominate like fort could only dream of doing.

Mathieu isn't worth the third pick? Had he not fucked up at LSU he'd be going in the top ten this draft, so to say that he's not worth a third round pick who could immediately start opposite Haden would be insane.

This is my take anyways.

Mathieu wouldn't be a top ten pick if he won the Heisman. You need to look at things more objectively, you act like a twelve year old when you find a player that you like.

@unsympathetic said:

Jones isn't worth the #6 pick, Ansah is better. Teo sucks against NFL competition. Mathieu isn't worth the third round pick with the above players still on the board.

There's no reason to pay the price required to "pick up a second" - this year's second round pick is simply not worth next year's second round and third round. We already have the pick from this draft's second round.. his name is Josh Gordon, and he's a stud.

Jones is considered one of the best pure linebackers to come out in a long time.

Teo doesn't suck against NFL competition because he's never faced NFL competition before... and if LJ Fort could play for us I'm sure Teo would dominate like fort could only dream of doing.

Mathieu isn't worth the third pick? Had he not fucked up at LSU he'd be going in the top ten this draft, so to say that he's not worth a third round pick who could immediately start opposite Haden would be insane.

This is my take anyways.

@poeticg said:

Jones in the first, pick up a second and take Teo and with the third take Mathieu... problems solved or problems started?

Jones isn't worth the #6 pick, Ansah is better. Teo sucks against NFL competition. Mathieu isn't worth the third round pick with the above players still on the board.

There's no reason to pay the price required to "pick up a second" - this year's second round pick is simply not worth next year's second round and third round. We already have the pick from this draft's second round.. his name is Josh Gordon, and he's a stud.

@poeticg said:

Jones in the first, pick up a second and take Teo and with the third take Mathieu... problems solved or problems started?

In other words, "pick the three most talked about people in college football".

No thanks on Te'o or Mathieu.

2) Jordan/Ansah are good for the first round. I'm pretty confident Milliner will go to Detroit.

Interesting possibilities for the round3 spot:

Garrett Jones, G/C, Alabama

Woods, WR, USC

Wilson, WR, Wash St

Sio Moore, OLB, Connecticut

Khaseem Greene, LB, Rutgers

Blidi Wreh-Wilson, CB, Connecticut

Robert Alford, CB, Southeastern Louisiana