I think the Browns take Ansah and sign two of Avril/Kruger/Ellerbe in FA. The OLB rotation will be Sheard/Kruger starting, Avril/Ansah rotating in.

@the-gipper said:

John Hannah IS in the HOF..as are Bruce Mattews and Mike Munchak. Rienstra whom you mentioned is not.

The OG position has not been disregarded by the HOF. Besides Hannah, Munchak, Matthews other OGs in the HOF who had playing careers or some portion thereof post 1970 include Joe Delamelleure, Russ Grimm, Larry Little, Tom Mack, Gene Upshaw. From 1950-1970 OGs include Lou Creekmur, Gene Hickerson, Forrest Gregg, Stan Jones, Jim Parker, Billy Shaw.

Prior to 1950 a lot of offensive linemen were 2 way performers....and there are a number of names there.

Huh? Well ill take your word for it the site i looked at only listed Matthews.

So yeah wikipedia blows, guess i was being lazy

@erie-dawg said:

Never seen him play. No love from the HOF either? wonder why?

His numbers are close to Bruce's and he is in.

John Hannah IS in the HOF..as are Bruce Mattews and Mike Munchak. Rienstra whom you mentioned is not.

The OG position has not been disregarded by the HOF. Besides Hannah, Munchak, Matthews other OGs in the HOF who had playing careers or some portion thereof post 1970 include Joe Delamelleure, Russ Grimm, Larry Little, Tom Mack, Gene Upshaw. From 1950-1970 OGs include Lou Creekmur, Gene Hickerson, Forrest Gregg, Stan Jones, Jim Parker, Billy Shaw.

Prior to 1950 a lot of offensive linemen were 2 way performers....and there are a number of names there.

@the-gipper said:

Go back a bit further and you have John Hannah, who I believe was drafted in Top 5 or 6. He may be considered the best of all time.

As I said earlier, I would not object to taking Warmack at #6....if the Browns really did a job of filling their defensive holes in FA. I don't know that they can do that though.

Never seen him play. No love from the HOF either? wonder why?

His numbers are close to Bruce's and he is in.

@cdl15 said:

I don't care how much it cost a swing and a miss in the first round is just that a swing and a miss. it's all opinion anyways. ..

Wrong, a swing and a miss no longer cost you the farm anymore not sure why you don't understand that. Has sam Bradford lived up to all that $ How about Mr. Buttfumble top 5 pick safe to say he sucks yet?

and neither players wrong history just tells me that picking a guard you probably would be able to afford him for close to a decade

wow way to go out on a limb on the lowest paid position.

whereas you take the edge rusher in your only going to be able to afford him through his rookie contract if he's a stud.

I've seen Jones is high is 1 on a lot of mock drafts I've seen him as low as 20 he's all over the place. every mock draft that I've looked at has war Mac as a top 10 player.

Hey im not in love with JJ but I havent seen him at 20 so im calling bullshit.

I agree that the reward could be much higher for Jones but the risk is going to be there for his whole career. and if he's a stud like everybody thinks he's not going to finish his rookie contract he's going to demand more probably sit out and will eventually leave like all the pass rushers that are on the market right now.

I dont believe you can hold out on a rookie contract (new CBA rule)

this draft class looks like the weakest first round I've ever seen I would rather hit than miss.

take a risky shot next year. there is way too much serviceable talent in the middle rounds this year.

Ok so from what you are saying the 1st round is loaded with 8 out of ten talent. and the mid rounds are loaded with a ton of serviceable 5's. so you want to pass on a good player and load up on some ok guys? Why? You are assuming that all of the mid round guys that we select some how all turn into all pro's. Not saying it never happens but more often than not it don't

This whole warmac argument is meaningless until we get closer to the draft.

@cdl15 said:

I don't care how much it cost a swing and a miss in the first round is just that a swing and a miss. it's all opinion anyways. ..and neither players wrong history just tells me that picking a guard you probably would be able to afford him for close to a decade whereas you take the edge rusher in your only going to be able to afford him through his rookie contract if he's a stud. I've seen Jones is high is 1 on a lot of mock drafts I've seen him as low as 20 he's all over the place. every mock draft that I've looked at has war Mac as a top 10 player.

I agree that the reward could be much higher for Jones but the risk is going to be there for his whole career. and if he's a stud like everybody thinks he's not going to finish his rookie contract he's going to demand more probably sit out and will eventually leave like all the pass rushers that are on the market right now.

this draft class looks like the weakest first round I've ever seen I would rather hit than miss.

take a risky shot next year. there is way too much serviceable talent in the middle rounds this year.

I haven't seen a single mock from a reliable scout or analyst that projects Jones past 8.

And it is rare for a team to not resign their first round player past his rookie contract. There isn't a first round player available in FA that is coming off his rookie contract.

And your argument makes no sense, if this year's class is filled with serviceable talent into the later rounds, why would we not take a risk with our first pick?

@erie-dawg said:

You are still thinking 3 years ago. With the NEW cba and rookie wage scale you are going to have less risk greater reward than in years past. I think this is what TCPO is trying to get through. In years past it was a real mother fucker to pick first overall because you were going to be shelling out huge $ and if the guy is mediocre you just set the franchise back several years. But where do you come up with our positions of need don't warrant picking that player in the top 5 or 10? Line backer, edge rusher? They go top 5-10 all day.

Actually I have seen more people seeing JJ better suited at the 3-4 because of his lack of weight and more upright style of play. which in the 4-3 gets him blocked out of the play.

I agree that the reward could be much higher for Jones but the risk is going to be there for his whole career. and if he's a stud like everybody thinks he's not going to finish his rookie contract he's going to demand more probably sit out and will eventually leave like all the pass rushers that are on the market right now.

this draft class looks like the weakest first round I've ever seen I would rather hit than miss.

take a risky shot next year. there is way too much serviceable talent in the middle rounds this year.

@cdl15 said:

if you stay at 6 your ultimately be reaching for a player because the top 5 players in this draft the Browns do not need or alternately people don't think that position should be that high.

You are still thinking 3 years ago. With the NEW cba and rookie wage scale you are going to have less risk greater reward than in years past. I think this is what TCPO is trying to get through. In years past it was a real mother fucker to pick first overall because you were going to be shelling out huge $ and if the guy is mediocre you just set the franchise back several years. But where do you come up with our positions of need don't warrant picking that player in the top 5 or 10? Line backer, edge rusher? They go top 5-10 all day.

@cdl15 said:

Jarvis Jones is the best 43 outside linebacker whereas the best 34 outside linebacker comes from Oregon In dion Jordan.and he is a late first rounder at best

Actually I have seen more people seeing JJ better suited at the 3-4 because of his lack of weight and more upright style of play. which in the 4-3 gets him blocked out of the play.

@cdl15 said:

if you stay at 6 your ultimately be reaching for a player because the top 5 players in this draft the Browns do not need or alternately people don't think that position should be that high. the Browns can drop back out of the top 10 take war Mac and get a second round pick or a third and fourth round pick. moving back to select a guard you get a top 5 Scouts Inc player and more mid round picks. Jarvis Jones is the best 43 outside linebacker whereas the best 34 outside linebacker comes from Oregon In dion Jordan.and he is a late first rounder at best

It takes two to trade and I don't see any team wanting a player that bad in this years draft.

@erie-dawg said:

I just looked out of curiosity to see when the last guard was taken in the top ten of the first rd. Now I did not include any supplemental picks from expansion teams.

I went back to the late 70s and found 3

1986 9th overall John Rienstra , steelers

1983 9th overall Bruce Mattews, oilers

1982 8th overall Mike Munchak, oilers

Go back a bit further and you have John Hannah, who I believe was drafted in Top 5 or 6. He may be considered the best of all time.

As I said earlier, I would not object to taking Warmack at #6....if the Browns really did a job of filling their defensive holes in FA. I don't know that they can do that though.

@erie-dawg said:

So i guess you could say that the price to trade up with another team is going to be more expensive for the team trading up than in years past because of the new rookie salary cap.

if you stay at 6 your ultimately be reaching for a player because the top 5 players in this draft the Browns do not need or alternately people don't think that position should be that high. the Browns can drop back out of the top 10 take war Mac and get a second round pick or a third and fourth round pick. moving back to select a guard you get a top 5 Scouts Inc player and more mid round picks. Jarvis Jones is the best 43 outside linebacker whereas the best 34 outside linebacker comes from Oregon In dion Jordan.and he is a late first rounder at best

@cdl15 said:

i would take those FA and roll maybe look into gamble for 4.5-5 mill a year

Like the Goldson,but would rather have Ellerbee, and for probably half the price L.Vasquez.

And agree with Gamble,as I posted in a earlier thread, think he would fit just fine.

I went back to the late 70s and found 3

1986 9th overall John Rienstra , steelers

1983 9th overall Bruce Mattews, oilers

1982 8th overall Mike Munchak, oilers

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

But why pay a FA LB an obscene amount of money when we can get a younger version for pennies on the dollar? The rookie salary cap makes it beneficial to pick skill positions early.

So i guess you could say that the price to trade up with another team is going to be more expensive for the team trading up than in years past because of the new rookie salary cap.

@cdl15 said:

And the Brown's had some of the worst guard play in the league. Draft warmack put him next to Swartz and we will not have to draft another lineman till thomas retires. Warmack has and will block every pass rusher in this draft

Not sure that guards take care of edge pass rushers. Warmack will not be a top six pick, we have much bigger needs

@slimdawg said:

Warmack blocked for Richardson at Alabama too, I'm sure TR wouldn't mind this pick at all.

And the Brown's had some of the worst guard play in the league. Draft warmack put him next to Swartz and we will not have to draft another lineman till thomas retires. Warmack has and will block every pass rusher in this draft

@badnewsbrowns said:

Not so sure switching to a 3-4 really sets us back all that much.

Even if we were to stick with the 4-3 we'd need to add another 1-2 linebackers anyhow.

If Sheard can make the switch to LB we are pretty much in the same boat, needing a free safety and corner.

I'm just worried about Jackon in the 3-4 bc he's a smaller guy and they say he doesn't shed blocks well so he might not be nearly as effective as he was in 4-3.

I know we need more talent on D but I'm starting to warm up to Warmack. Let's be honest our O-Line is sub par at run blocking, we need a mauler type guy with this power running game between the tackles.

You can say that 6 is not worth a guard but look at it as protecting your investment in Richardson, if Warmack can help to unlock Richardsons potential in Norvs offense than I definitely think he's worth it at 6.

About trading down I just don't see how it could happen, I think our only shot is that the Chiefs don't take a tackle or some team really wants Gino Smith..even then I doubt they'd be willing to give up a 2nd rounder in this years draft.

Warmack blocked for Richardson at Alabama too, I'm sure TR wouldn't mind this pick at all.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Richardson still rushed for nearly 1,000 yards and 11 TDs, with an average of 3.6 YPC.

While adding a solid guard should and probably will help, it's not like that is our #1 concern. Our #1 concern should be adding enough LB's to fill out our scheme, which as of the current moment is something we do not have.

To me, our best bet would be to address OL via FA, then look to adding skill players via the draft.

Here's three realistic contracts for three FA's we could use:

Andy Levitre- 6 years/$45 million 2013 cap hit=$12.5 million

Paul Kruger- 5 years/$50 million 2013 cap hit=$12 million

Dashon Goldson- 6 years/$50 million 2013 cap hit=$15 million

I'm assuming a few things in figuring these contracts:

1) We will have to drastically overpay for each of these FA's.

2) We will offer large signing bonuses to entice them because that will help in structuring contracts for the future

3) Each of these FA's is looking to be the in the top 5 of their positional contact averages

Even with those outrageous cap hits for this upcoming season, that still leaves us with around $10 million of free cap space to find some second tier, situational and depth players.

Attached is the breakdown of their contracts. Granted, this is all hypothetical. I just structured their contracts similar to some of the top paid players in their respective positions.

@miktoxic said:

the run game has suffered from our weak right side. i mean how obvious does it have to be until the problem is fixed? our RBs will keep getting stuffed in the backfield until we get some help there either FA or draft.

Richardson still rushed for nearly 1,000 yards and 11 TDs, with an average of 3.6 YPC.

While adding a solid guard should and probably will help, it's not like that is our #1 concern. Our #1 concern should be adding enough LB's to fill out our scheme, which as of the current moment is something we do not have.

To me, our best bet would be to address OL via FA, then look to adding skill players via the draft.

Here's three realistic contracts for three FA's we could use:

Andy Levitre- 6 years/$45 million 2013 cap hit=$12.5 million

Paul Kruger- 5 years/$50 million 2013 cap hit=$12 million

Dashon Goldson- 6 years/$50 million 2013 cap hit=$15 million

I'm assuming a few things in figuring these contracts:

1) We will have to drastically overpay for each of these FA's.

2) We will offer large signing bonuses to entice them because that will help in structuring contracts for the future

3) Each of these FA's is looking to be the in the top 5 of their positional contact averages

Even with those outrageous cap hits for this upcoming season, that still leaves us with around $10 million of free cap space to find some second tier, situational and depth players.

Attached is the breakdown of their contracts. Granted, this is all hypothetical. I just structured their contracts similar to some of the top paid players in their respective positions.

Avril and a top corner seem to be getting damn close to sure things. Could be wrong, Avril could end up in Indy. We just need to win some of these by paying more money. Has to be spent, get the guys you want.

Avril and Sheard are classic 3-4 transitions, light and athletic DEs, woth did well in position drills in Mobile. Most expected Avril to to to a 3-4 team (including him) and Steelers were eyeing Sheard in second round, talked about trading up.

DQJ, Gocong, and Rubin have played 3-4. Sheard stood up half the time last season. Taylor has played multiple fronts. Winn seems born to be a 3-4 5-tech, at least to me. I think JMJ and Robertson are athletic, explosive guys and we'll find places for them. Robertson probably in nickels.

Everybody plays multi-fronts now. Not quite the harsh transition it used to be.

@cdl15 said:

I would settle for levitre. Gotta do something there. Better guard play will help running game

the run game has suffered from our weak right side. i mean how obvious does it have to be until the problem is fixed? our RBs will keep getting stuffed in the backfield until we get some help there either FA or draft.