@poeticg said:

James Harrison is a douchebag.

Can we kill this thread since we're not even talking about him anymore...

Yeah lets talk about your your depressed middle aged neutered cat with bloody stooles.

Can we kill this thread since we're not even talking about him anymore...

@vagitron said:

Yea and its stupid. Antonio Brown did the same but now he does it far less. You dont put your prize horses at risk.

Rod Woodson returned punts and kickoffs for years. Yep, if one of your starting DBs gets banged up it is bad but teams only have so many guys who are fast enough with good enough hands to be a returner.

@hoorta said:

Fair enough- and FYI Haden did return kickoffs his rookie year, he's totally capable of doing so again in a emergency situation. And PS, Patrick Peterson returns punts for the Cardinals, look it up.

Yea and its stupid. Antonio Brown did the same but now he does it far less. You dont put your prize horses at risk.

@vagitron said:

My bad dude. Quoted you when I wanted to quote Hoorta, honest mistake.

Fair enough- and FYI Haden did return kickoffs his rookie year, he's totally capable of doing so again in a emergency situation. And PS, Patrick Peterson returns punts for the Cardinals, look it up.

How true. Each year there are players in the draft who have all the physical tools but somehow don't know how to make use of it all on the field. And then there are a few who don't have great combine numbers but end up being productive for years. It is what keeps drafting talent from being a pure science. It will always be somewhat an art as well ( and a bit of luck). Game tape is surely a big factor.

Anyone remember that Jerry Rice had mediocre combine numbers, probably cost himself a lot of $$$ because he was the THIRD WR drafted that year? He turned out OK and then some. I think that size and speed are talents that are easy to scout and quantify so teams usually don't make mistakes on those. If you are below a certain speed you are just not an NFL player. If you are less than a certain size you probably aren't either.

Catching and securing the ball, and getting separation from defenders are skills that some WRs with good physical ability never learn. There is an old cliche about speed vs. football speed. I think that's true.

I think they have to draft for talent and hope they learn skills.

they have puzzy, and from what i've heard it tastes like the end of a battery.

@vagitron said:

Apparently Erie is of the opinion that a failed steeler season is not making the super bowl or the afc champ game.

Really?

@vagitron said:

I just dont believe we are going to see an epic collapse and if we do have a bad year i expect it to be one and done.

@vagitron said:

We will work out the parameters but the afc champ game nor the bowl will be involved.

Nooooo ballz pussy.

God you act like we are betting a huge fucking dollar amount do you need some one to spot ya for a fucking pizza?

@the-gipper said:

I didn't ignore anything. I AM the one that said athletic ability is a factor but not the only factor. I SAID that WR skills are more than that. I said that the Browns WR are more athletic...but that they had to develop their WR skills.

Please: tell all of us how I,you,we, the NFL can objectively measure athletic ability if you are not going to take into account height, weight, speed, strength etc. etc. etc. etc.

Are they suppose to use a magic 8 ball?

Where did i say you dont take those things into account. Game tape is a much larger factor in the drafting process. The combine just shows a base to build on. Brown/sanders are smaller receivers, hell a different type of wr altogether. They ran comparable 40's but arent as tall or as strong. What about lateral quickness, hands etc. You cant judge an athlete just on height, strength and speed. There are different combinations that add up to a good wr. What about tavon austin in this draft? Hes not a great athlete?

Your argument is flawed. I never said the browns didnt have good athletes, what i did say is that they arent superior to the steelers.

@vagitron said:

Im in columbus currently and am either posting from my phone or my kindle fire. I usually break up my posts and i never said a word about the superbowl. Apparently Erie is of the opinion that a failed steeler season is not making the super bowl or the afc champ game. We will work out the parameters but the afc champ game nor the bowl will be involved. (Gipper i will try and respond to your breakdown at some point. 40 times and height are two pieces of a much larger pie. A fact you choose to ignore out of ignorance or your unwillingness to weaken your argument.)

I didn't ignore anything. I AM the one that said athletic ability is a factor but not the only factor. I SAID that WR skills are more than that. I said that the Browns WR are more athletic...but that they had to develop their WR skills.

Please: tell all of us how I,you,we, the NFL can objectively measure athletic ability if you are not going to take into account height, weight, speed, strength etc. etc. etc. etc.

Are they suppose to use a magic 8 ball?

Endymion said:

First, Tron is hard to read...he doesn't use paragraphs to break up his ramblings, so I often can't finish reading his posts. He must've missed alot of English classes due to his athletic prowless. Second, if he's betting with you that the Steelers make the Super Bowl...it's kinda like watching a Retard who can't count being robbed by a cashier... or maybe it's because he's a black 'n' gold fan that I feel obligated to say something... or maybe he's just in denial of the bad season coming that he's acting foolish...or maybe it's because you are a Brown's fan that I assume you are trying to con him...or maybe he's just trying to gleen the phone number of the Steelers fan in your sig...I'll just leave it at that.

Im in columbus currently and am either posting from my phone or my kindle fire. I usually break up my posts and i never said a word about the superbowl. Apparently Erie is of the opinion that a failed steeler season is not making the super bowl or the afc champ game. We will work out the parameters but the afc champ game nor the bowl will be involved. (Gipper i will try and respond to your breakdown at some point. 40 times and height are two pieces of a much larger pie. A fact you choose to ignore out of ignorance or your unwillingness to weaken your argument.)

@erie-dawg said:

There is no con or schemes going on, he asked to bet me. So I accepted. It's put up or shut up time, He is always so confident that they are contenders, but when they fail its always excuses, but he claims the roster has pro-bowl caliber players at every position.

First, Tron is hard to read...he doesn't use paragraphs to break up his ramblings, so I often can't finish reading his posts. He must've missed alot of English classes due to his athletic prowless. Second, if he's betting with you that the Steelers make the Super Bowl...it's kinda like watching a Retard who can't count being robbed by a cashier... or maybe it's because he's a black 'n' gold fan that I feel obligated to say something... or maybe he's just in denial of the bad season coming that he's acting foolish...or maybe it's because you are a Brown's fan that I assume you are trying to con him...or maybe he's just trying to gleen the phone number of the Steelers fan in your sig...I'll just leave it at that.

@erie-dawg said:

Actually no clevelands special teams was ranked second only to baltimore, steelers special teams ranked below avg at 17th.

I will let the bet rest for now because there is no sense in arguing with a pussy that is so confident that the ship isn't sinking. Even though you practically went through you whole roster and had nothing but great things to say about every player, you still have to wait for the draft. And the steelers always nail the draft, so im not seeing why you feel the need to wait, other than you being a wishy- washy fagot ass homo. Sack up vagitron. Back up what you say for once, "mr confident" LoL

Any way Baltimore is reported to be looking at harrison.

You cant have a rational,intelligent debate with Vagi-tard...these kids today need affirmation and confidence building untill they reach 30-35 years old...I grew up in Collinwood/Euclid are...This little punk wouldnt have lasted 5 minutes in Collinwood...He wouldve had his lunch money taken from him on a daily basis and have run home crying to his momma after having his little faggot ass kicked. Its plain and simple...He exposes himself as a fraud every opportunity he gets only everyone recognizes it but him. But, I guess thats ok for him...Im Sure he has his surrogate Mommy/Girlfriend waiting to strap fuck his sad self when he gets home from selling Cell phones...or whatever it is, He does.

@vagitron said:

1. Why the hell would you use your stud corner to return kicks and punts?

2. Why would you think Joe Haden would be better suited to do that than Antonio Brown who was returning punts/kicks

3. I'm also not worried about your tight end position. We have a very proven, rock solid one in Miller. (as long as he recovers nicely from this injury, not a guarantee)

Steelers special teams > Browns special teams.

Actually no clevelands special teams was ranked second only to baltimore, steelers special teams ranked below avg at 17th.

I will let the bet rest for now because there is no sense in arguing with a pussy that is so confident that the ship isn't sinking. Even though you practically went through you whole roster and had nothing but great things to say about every player, you still have to wait for the draft. And the steelers always nail the draft, so im not seeing why you feel the need to wait, other than you being a wishy- washy fagot ass homo. Sack up vagitron. Back up what you say for once, "mr confident" LoL

Any way Baltimore is reported to be looking at harrison.

@vagitron said:

1. Why the hell would you use your stud corner to return kicks and punts?

2. Why would you think Joe Haden would be better suited to do that than Antonio Brown who was returning punts/kicks

3. I'm also not worried about your tight end position. We have a very proven, rock solid one in Miller. (as long as he recovers nicely from this injury, not a guarantee)

Steelers special teams > Browns special teams.

Even a blind squirrel etc. etc. I agree with most of this. I wouldn't be using Haden to return punts and kicks, even if he is capable of it. The Browns must find a replacement for Cribbs. Benjamin is most likely to fill that role....or they may draft someone or pick up a FA.

And yes, Miller is more proven than any Browns TE.

And with the loss of Cribbs and maybe Dawson, it is certainly up in the air as to which teams STs are better.

No, you didn't read because besides being obtuse you are probably attention deficit.

I mentioned my ability because while the speed and the explosion helped it's NOT why i was a good athlete. You said basically this, "Oh well they're tall, they're fast clearly they're amazing athletes". I was a great athlete because of those things but more importantly hand eye coordination and body control. All of which doesn't always guarantee it will translate to an organized sport. Bottom line your "combine olympic" statements mean only so much and that was my point.

No, that was not your point. Your point was merely to persist in your delusion that anything wearing black and yellow is better. Don't obfuscate.

You were show documented evidence that based on objective evidence the Browns WRs are superior athletes than the Steeler WRs. You just couldn't handle that truth, so you proceeded to blubber on about how those objective factors don't mean anything...how the only thing that matters is your opinion of your stupid garlic eating team.

Alfred Morris check his combine numbers, Doug Martin as well. Two recent examples but if you want I can go back through several combines and flag a bunch of players that really put it together on the field but didn't have great combine numbers or the best physical intangibles. You may not give a damn about my athletic prowess in the same way I don't give a shit about what you do for a living. Seeing as you are I believe an attorney you'd think your arguments would be more iron clad. Instead you just babble on and on and drop a bunch of stats no one gives a damn about.

A. My arguments ARE iron clad. Otherwise you wouldn't be scrambling like a cockroach when the lights are turned on to try to diffuse them...unsuccessfully.

B. Obviously YOU don't get it. The National Football League is the one that asks these players to run these drills in order to obtain those stats. Apparenttly THEY DO give a damn about them. But since that fact doesn't fit your delusion, you fecklessly denigrate them.

Bottom line if you were a GM and didn't have college tape to look at guys like Morris and Martin would have been off your radar. Soooo Gip continue to post your random stats no one cares about, your trivia no one cares about and your movie references for the sake of being cute.

I will continue to list stats that the NFL and other produce. After all, if the NFL didn't produce them, they wouldn't be out there for me to cite them.

I will continue to post trivia because a number of people like it, are entertained by it...AND are informed by it. Just because you lack either the interest or capability to participate doesn't mean others don't like it.

And I will continue to cite movies, song lyrics, historical quotes, literary quotes etc. etc. etc. because I am a man of wit and humor, and not a yeast infected, sphincter puckered dried up old humorless curmudgeon like you. Or does it really just come down to the fact that you are a dumb jock?

@buck-the-frowns said:

Steelers went a year or two too long with a number of players and age/cap caught up all at once. I look for several lean years (no playoffs) while they try to retool.

Harrison has had a weird career. He bounced around (Steelers/Ratbirds/Steelers) and did not really start until he was 29. He had his peak seasons at a time when most players age in dog years. Done now. My cousin from Parma said he tried to shoot his HS coach in Ohio with a BB gun. True or not? Now they will see if Worilds can play. At Worilds's age I think Harrison was playing in NFL Europe or whatever they called it then.

Wallace was the most productive of those they let walk and IMHO has a lot left in the tank. Too bad he went to a stinky team.

Mendenhall had several good years but between injuries/suspension/attitude problems did not do much last year. Addition by subtraction. Redman was leading rusher anyway.

Hampton has been done for several years.

O-line on paper is pretty good, though they got injured a lot last year. Unfortunately games are not played on paper.

I look for another 8-8 year, thought that was about what they would do last year and they did.

I actually 100% agree. Especially with your first point. However most of those players have been playing at a pretty high level. Harrison would have had a great season if not for the surgeries and even then he had a pretty solid one all things considered. I wish we would have kept Mendenhall but he made that bed, so now he's gone. I'm very hopeful with the o-line because Adams was a monster in the run game, DeCastro will get a full off season and Foster has been solid at guard. Gilbert is the wild card but he's more comfortable at left tackle and I think he's got the tools to be pretty solid. I agree on Hampton but he took a pay cut to stick around. I won't be shocked to see 8-8 but I think they'll finish stronger. Buress and Cotchery will get more use and they're still good. As long is Ben is under center and healthy and the line plays like it should I'd say they're a 10 win team. It's going to hinge pretty heavily on health at certain spots tho. Woodley can't get laid up again, Ben needs to stay healthy and it would be nice to get Troy for a majority of the season. Apparently they didn't think much of Keenan Lewis because they didn't even offer the guy a contract (Colbert was on record ahead of FA that the team wasn't going to make FA offers before allowing players to test. I think Harrison was the lone exception and they wanted him to take a 30% pay cut supposedly with the ability to earn it back on performance incentives. 8-8 is a very real possibility if players get banged up. Are you a Browns fan? If so you should post here more lol

Harrison has had a weird career. He bounced around (Steelers/Ratbirds/Steelers) and did not really start until he was 29. He had his peak seasons at a time when most players age in dog years. Done now. My cousin from Parma said he tried to shoot his HS coach in Ohio with a BB gun. True or not? Now they will see if Worilds can play. At Worilds's age I think Harrison was playing in NFL Europe or whatever they called it then.

Wallace was the most productive of those they let walk and IMHO has a lot left in the tank. Too bad he went to a stinky team.

Mendenhall had several good years but between injuries/suspension/attitude problems did not do much last year. Addition by subtraction. Redman was leading rusher anyway.

Hampton has been done for several years.

O-line on paper is pretty good, though they got injured a lot last year. Unfortunately games are not played on paper.

I look for another 8-8 year, thought that was about what they would do last year and they did.

@miktoxic said:

yeah i wish i had pull with the mods. try counting 11 posts before this one. then go bitch at them.

you sure put your foot in your mouth a lot. glad you're not someone important where there are people's lives are dependent on whether or not you get your facts straight.

you should take a break and go back to the steelers board cuz we got you all scrambled.

My bad dude. Quoted you when I wanted to quote Hoorta, honest mistake.

@vagitron said:

So you edited it out? or had a mod do it? I sure as hell wasn't seeing things. I also have no qualms with a corner returning punts but you don't use your stud corner to do it.

yeah i wish i had pull with the mods. try counting 11 posts before this one. then go bitch at them.

you sure put your foot in your mouth a lot. glad you're not someone important where people's lives are dependent on whether or not you get your facts straight.

you should take a break and go back to the steelers board cuz we got you all scrambled.

@bringbackbrownie2 said:

It's hard to take you seriously when you fail to read. He never mentioned Haden during his post. He talked of ACQUIRING a CB. There are plenty of CBs that have returned kicks over the years. Look them up.

It was mod edited out or edited out. Haden was mentioned and now it's gone.

@miktoxic said:

i never said we would use haden to return kicks or returns. someone else said that. i said we might acquire one (cb) that could do both. like it's never been done before?

sanders did it. jones did it. need i go on?

So you edited it out? or had a mod do it? I sure as hell wasn't seeing things. I also have no qualms with a corner returning punts but you don't use your stud corner to do it.

cornerbacks and the people they cover are usually the fastest people on the squad. why not utilize their speed. not saying everyone has the muster for it. you gotta be fearless.

i know i'm in the minority but i'd go after mathieu if available in the 3rd. do it in the D backfield and in the special team game. he will be a great nfl player.

and now he's got neon deon sandcastle as his mentor. say what!!