@nickers said:

Until Greco and Lavao are replaced...I dont see this as a "great" cockpit.

I thought Greco filled in well, better than expected.

Lauvao ... he can go.

Zombo

Zombo said:

There's the thing.

None of us know jackshit about quarterbacks.

Some fell in love with Brady Quinn, Kelly Holcomb, Charlie Frye and Colt McCoy because they felt they had "intangibles" and "moxie".

I am guilty for over-indulging in Tim Couch and Derek Anderson because I saw beautiful passes when they were "on" which made me dismiss how much they were actually "off"

Here's what I'll say about Brandon Weeden: Talent-wise he is as good as, or better, than anybody we have brought in since 99.

And he has an offensive-minded long-ball stretch-the-field coach in Chud, Norv Fricking Turner as his OC, Trent Richardson as his running back, Gordon and Little at WR, Joe Thomas as his left tackle and stud anchors at center and RT ... he is set up to succeed.

Whether he does or not, is up to him.

Maybe Camp "slow minded" is right, he crashes and burns and Campbell gives us adequate quarterbacking until we bring in the next prospect.

I don't know. I'm about 50/50 on him at this point (maybe 55/45) on him being the answer.

But, we are going to find out quickly. He's got no excuses ... he either takes off in this offense or he's a 30-year-old has been joke added to the littany of post-99 Browns jokes ... but I think we'll know by the end of October.

Give him two months of football and then feel free with the "I told you so's".

But I think we've got a talented quarterback and a great "cockpit" and the perfect coaching system for him to succeed ...

Call me Shep, call me gay ... but I am actually excited to see Weeden in this offense in 2013.

Zombo

Until Greco and Lavao are replaced...I dont see this as a "great" cockpit.

Zombo said:

There's the thing.

None of us know jackshit about quarterbacks.

Some fell in love with Brady Quinn, Kelly Holcomb, Charlie Frye and Colt McCoy because they felt they had "intangibles" and "moxie".

I am guilty for over-indulging in Tim Couch and Derek Anderson because I saw beautiful passes when they were "on" which made me dismiss how much they were actually "off"

Here's what I'll say about Brandon Weeden: Talent-wise he is as good as, or better, than anybody we have brought in since 99.

And he has an offensive-minded long-ball stretch-the-field coach in Chud, Norv Fricking Turner as his OC, Trent Richardson as his running back, Gordon and Little at WR, Joe Thomas as his left tackle and stud anchors at center and RT ... he is set up to succeed.

Whether he does or not, is up to him.

Maybe Camp "slow minded" is right, he crashes and burns and Campbell gives us adequate quarterbacking until we bring in the next prospect.

I don't know. I'm about 50/50 on him at this point (maybe 55/45) on him being the answer.

But, we are going to find out quickly. He's got no excuses ... he either takes off in this offense or he's a 30-year-old has been joke added to the littany of post-99 Browns jokes ... but I think we'll know by the end of October.

Give him two months of football and then feel free with the "I told you so's".

But I think we've got a talented quarterback and a great "cockpit" and the perfect coaching system for him to succeed ...

Call me Shep, call me gay ... but I am actually excited to see Weeden in this offense in 2013.

Zombo

Shep prefers the USC QB's.

@erie-dawg said:

Ok fair enough, so i'll take elways first 3 seasons starting for denver.

Touchdowns 47.

INT's 52.

I think the best comparison would be year two. 18 TD's and 15 Int's. Better than Weeden. But I think that Manning's numbers in year one were fairly similar. There may be hope for Weeden, but I would not want to wait and find out without a backup plan. Hopefully the Browns will find the good QB in this draft and let the competition begin.

Im more excited about the draft. I'm not sure at this point if im excited to see the new weapons or the fact of getting it over with because we totally screwed it up.

@browns57 said:

I don't think your comparison works. Elway only started 10 games that year. Steve Deberg was the starter and likely got most of the reps in practice. Weeden was the guy from day one and had way more reps I would imagine. Thus he should have been able to do more than Elway and did.

Ok fair enough, so i'll take elways first 3 seasons starting for denver.

Touchdowns 47.

INT's 52.

Zombo said:

There's the thing.

None of us know jackshit about quarterbacks.

Some fell in love with Brady Quinn, Kelly Holcomb, Charlie Frye and Colt McCoy because they felt they had "intangibles" and "moxie".

I am guilty for over-indulging in Tim Couch and Derek Anderson because I saw beautiful passes when they were "on" which made me dismiss how much they were actually "off"

Here's what I'll say about Brandon Weeden: Talent-wise he is as good as, or better, than anybody we have brought in since 99.

And he has an offensive-minded long-ball stretch-the-field coach in Chud, Norv Fricking Turner as his OC, Trent Richardson as his running back, Gordon and Little at WR, Joe Thomas as his left tackle and stud anchors at center and RT ... he is set up to succeed.

Whether he does or not, is up to him.

Maybe Camp "slow minded" is right, he crashes and burns and Campbell gives us adequate quarterbacking until we bring in the next prospect.

I don't know. I'm about 50/50 on him at this point (maybe 55/45) on him being the answer.

But, we are going to find out quickly. He's got no excuses ... he either takes off in this offense or he's a 30-year-old has been joke added to the littany of post-99 Browns jokes ... but I think we'll know by the end of October.

Give him two months of football and then feel free with the "I told you so's".

But I think we've got a talented quarterback and a great "cockpit" and the perfect coaching system for him to succeed ...

Call me Shep, call me gay ... but I am actually excited to see Weeden in this offense in 2013.

Zombo

You're gay.

@erie-dawg said:

not saying that weeds will turn out the same but he has a system setup and coaching that he should do well in.

There's the thing.

None of us know jackshit about quarterbacks.

Some fell in love with Brady Quinn, Kelly Holcomb, Charlie Frye and Colt McCoy because they felt they had "intangibles" and "moxie".

I am guilty for over-indulging in Tim Couch and Derek Anderson because I saw beautiful passes when they were "on" which made me dismiss how much they were actually "off"

Here's what I'll say about Brandon Weeden: Talent-wise he is as good as, or better, than anybody we have brought in since 99.

And he has an offensive-minded long-ball stretch-the-field coach in Chud, Norv Fricking Turner as his OC, Trent Richardson as his running back, Gordon and Little at WR, Joe Thomas as his left tackle and stud anchors at center and RT ... he is set up to succeed.

Whether he does or not, is up to him.

Maybe Camp "slow minded" is right, he crashes and burns and Campbell gives us adequate quarterbacking until we bring in the next prospect.

I don't know. I'm about 50/50 on him at this point (maybe 55/45) on him being the answer.

But, we are going to find out quickly. He's got no excuses ... he either takes off in this offense or he's a 30-year-old has been joke added to the littany of post-99 Browns jokes ... but I think we'll know by the end of October.

Give him two months of football and then feel free with the "I told you so's".

But I think we've got a talented quarterback and a great "cockpit" and the perfect coaching system for him to succeed ...

Call me Shep, call me gay ... but I am actually excited to see Weeden in this offense in 2013.

Zombo

@erie-dawg said:

Go up a few post and look at the chart with the class of 83. elway had half as many touchdowns as Int's.

I think elway was brought to stanford on a baseball scholarship and ended up in football. There are some similaraties there. not saying that weeds will turn out the same but he has a system setup and coaching that he should do well in.

I don't think your comparison works. Elway only started 10 games that year. Steve Deberg was the starter and likely got most of the reps in practice. Weeden was the guy from day one and had way more reps I would imagine. Thus he should have been able to do more than Elway and did.

@browns57 said:

And your case about Weeden's numbers last year being good is laughable. The most important stat is Int's, Then TD /Int (he threw more INT's than TD's). He also threw more TD's per passing attempt then anybody else in that group. Maybe with a new coach he will be better this year. But I don't think that should preclude us from taking a qb, letting them compete and giving the best man the job.

Go up a few post and look at the chart with the class of 83. elway had half as many touchdowns as Int's.

I think elway was brought to stanford on a baseball scholarship and ended up in football. There are some similaraties there. not saying that weeds will turn out the same but he has a system setup and coaching that he should do well in.

And your case about Weeden's numbers last year being good is laughable. The most important stat is Int's, Then TD /Int (he threw more INT's than TD's). He also threw more TD's per passing attempt then anybody else in that group. Maybe with a new coach he will be better this year. But I don't think that should preclude us from taking a qb, letting them compete and giving the best man the job.

@the-gipper said:

Compare the 2012 crop of rookies:

Andrew Luck 11-5 record. 339/627 54.1%, 4374 yds, 23 TDs/18 ints

Robert Griffin 9-6 record. 258/393 65.6%, 3200 yds, 20 TDs/5 ints

Russell Wilson 11-5 record. 252/393 64.1%, 3118 yds, 26 TDs/10 ints

Ryan Tannehill 7-9 record. 282/484 58.3%, 3294 yds, 12 TDs/13 ints

Brandon Weeden 5-10 record. 297/517 57.4%, 3385 yds 14 TDs/17 ints

I mean, does anyone think that this year's rookie crop will even be close to last years? Smith, Barkley, Landry Jones etc. etc.

Anyone? Anyone?

@the-gipper said:

Honestly, it actually remains to be seen.

In November 2011 NO ONE foresaw how highly rated RGIII would become. The same for Wilson, Tannehill, Weeden. Did you? I doubt it.

And who knows, the wheels may yet fall off this class...not that I want it or predict it.

Look at the "great" year before: Gabbert, Locker, Ponder, Newton. Not necessarily as stellar as thought at the time.

I'm just busting your chops . Honestly I wanted us to use a late pick on Wilson. Thought he would be a good project QB (no project really needed tho).

@usfbrown said:

Makes you want to retract your post, huh?

Honestly, it actually remains to be seen.

In November 2011 NO ONE foresaw how highly rated RGIII would become. The same for Wilson, Tannehill, Weeden. Did you? I doubt it.

And who knows, the wheels may yet fall off this class...not that I want it or predict it.

Look at the "great" year before: Gabbert, Locker, Ponder, Newton. Not necessarily as stellar as thought at the time.

@the-gipper said:

No, except for Luck, this crop of QBs is a pretty mediocre bunch. It doesn't match up to last year's "crop" even.

Makes you want to retract your post, huh?

And then there is this.

One year later that seems/sounds absurd.

And one of the afterthoughts of that 2011 draft: Colin Kaepernick.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82509efb/article/class-of-11-rivals-best-crop-of-rookie-quarterbacks-ever

@erie-dawg said:

Is this a personal opinion list?

There has to be some turds somewhere in history that put up good numbers but never panned out.

This was Yahoo's list, not mine. And you can probably find a turd on this list. As mentioned, Vince Young has never been as good as his rookie season...and now I don't even know if he has a team.

Edit note: About 10 years ago ESPN put together a list of the greatest rookie QBs, and #1 on that list was Greg Cook of the Bengals, whom we know had a very short lived career due to injuries. It is entirely possible one of the 2012 Five could suffer that same fate. RGIII seems to already be on that path perhaps.

Andrew Luck 11-5 record. 339/627 54.1%, 4374 yds, 23 TDs/18 ints

Robert Griffin 9-6 record. 258/393 65.6%, 3200 yds, 20 TDs/5 ints

Russell Wilson 11-5 record. 252/393 64.1%, 3118 yds, 26 TDs/10 ints

Ryan Tannehill 7-9 record. 282/484 58.3%, 3294 yds, 12 TDs/13 ints

Brandon Weeden 5-10 record. 297/517 57.4%, 3385 yds 14 TDs/17 ints

By a statistical comparison, it could be argued that fully half of the greatest seasons by a rookie QB in the NFL since 1970 took place in the year 2012...including Weeden's and Tannehill's years.

This is why, to me, it is foolish to say that Weeden was bad. In the history of the NFL he had one of the best rookie seasons by a QB. Its just that the aberration in the 2012 season by rookie QBs throws the entire curve off kilter.

And, OK, lets face it, probably a couple of this year's QBs could go the way of Vince Young and Charlie Batch where their first year may end up being their greatest year and they disappear, or they become a perennial backup QB.

It is too early to tell.

There has to be some turds somewhere in history that put up good numbers but never panned out.