@miktoxic said:

really. i'm like what rhianna called j.r. smith of the knicks....a desert thirsty N (word).

just a six pack between friends. anything less than $20. cuz i suck at gamblin and don't want to get beat up by my girl.

Im in for both bets. The bet is the steelers finish under .500? Im obviously saying they finish over.

@the-gipper said:

It's often hard to read the quality of players who come from the Big 12. There are many great athletes in the Big 12 but the defenses are so bad one has to factor that in when evaluating QB success. But RGIII was a Big 12 QB so the conference can and does produce some good QBs. The one thing I remember about Brandon Weeden at OSU is that he made many great throws -- often in the clutch. Remember his team beat Baylor and Stanford, for example, and he was a big part of it. It just seemed that a lot of Weeden's difficulty in 2012 was nerves. Hopefully with a year under his belt he'll be more settled inthe pocket and that will lead to better decision making and more accurate throws. Either that, or he'll be sitting on the bench.

@erie-dawg said:

really. i'm like what rhianna called j.r. smith of the knicks....a desert thirsty N (word).

just a six pack between friends. anything less than $20. cuz i suck at gamblin and don't want to get beat up by my girl.

speaking of betting you ready to place a bet with mik and I?

@erie-dawg said:

Big Ben goes down the Steelers aren't going to the Super Bowl. Manning goes down, Brady goes down, Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, Andrew Luck, RGII, Drew Brees etc, etc, etc. Sure you can win some games but you aren't going to push for a title. The year Cassel led the Patriots to a 11-5 record I'm fairly certain (I'd have to double check) they were one and done and they were one and done because Cassel couldn't cut the mustard when it mattered most. Sooooo yes when a franchise qb goes down or in my fandom's case if and when Ben gets injured in serious fashion the season is most likely over. However in Pittsburgh going one and done is a bad season.

Gipper you went to NFL.com or whatever resource you used and just plugged guys in at each position. Your analysis was basically null and void, just a rank order and when you did talk about why someone was ranked where they were ranked it was vague and clouded with orange. People think I have a self inflated opinion, you think everything that exits your mouth is gospel and when you do ask for additional opinions you very rarely process and reanalyze anything anyway. Worilds has played when Harrison or Woodley got injured and over the course i believe 10 starts he has 10 sacks. Heyward was never expected to come in and start immediately and rookies VERY rarely do in that defense anyway. As i've said in at least one other thread the predicted demise of the Steelers on this board is always premature. Vegas has them at pretty good odds to push for the Bowl and they only play the odds. It's time you give it a rest OR actually provide some real analysis when you attempt to break down the rosters, not just "oh he's old" or simply repeating what you've read on site X.

@vagitron said:

Soooo you are saying franchise qbs are no big deal. If one goes down, throw another guy in and the team will function in identical fashion. A statement im sure you know is insane.

Im saying that its not necessarily end of season if your... never mind your a dumbass.

@vagitron said:

@the-gipper said:

Gipper the difference is i pay attention to the other teams during the season and you are apparently Capt. Tunnel vision. There is a pretty big difference between you and I, I know the division and the rest of the league, you clearly don't. As far as Worilds is concerned he has been playing behind James Harrison and Lamar Woodley. I wonder why he wasn't getting starter reps lol. Heyward has had Keisel in his way and he's been rotating with Hood while he learned the defense. A defense that is traditionally very hard to learn which is why it's rare to see a rookie get significant playing time.

Skeptical2013 said:

I agree with you here. As an academic school, Miami is superior.

However, overall, as a producer of NFL football talent, the Big 12 school is generally going to have it over the MAC.

But, there are exceptions. At this point no one would rightfully claim that BW3 of OK St. is a better QB than BR of Miami, Oh.

But...hopefully he will begin to approach that capabilty.

OK St. has produced one of the greatest RBs in NFL history...Barry Sanders. But, with QBs, not so good. Prior to Weeden the best QB to come out of OK St. was Rusty Hilger. Not quite your star power.

In fact, in one year Weeden has more starts and has thrown for more yards than Hilger did his entire career, which wasn't all that long...3 with Oakland, one with Detroit, one with Indy.....14 starts, about 2500 career yards. 11 TDs.

Yeah, after one year Weeden is already the best NFL QB in OK St. history

@vagitron said:

Worils and Heyward can't even start for their team. They are or were rotational players. They may have to become starters this season however given the Steelers losses on the DL.

And I will challenge you to ask anyone on who they think knows more about what I am talking about....and whose charade has worn out it welcome.

And I get my information from the same damn place you do: tv, paper, internet.

You have no access to anything I don't.

The only thing you do that I don't do?: overrate the players on your team.

@miktoxic said:

As a long time professional working for some great companies, my experience is that people from Ohio universities and colleges were preferred over people from much better known colleges elsewhere in America and did very well in a lot of key assignments. I've been around and despite what some may think, Ohio high schools are good and so are nearly all the colleges.

In my opinion Miami of Ohio, where Ben went to school, is a far superior university to Oklahoma State.

Skeptical2013 said:

well it depends on whether or not you think ohio U gives out a better edumacation than ok state. let's compare:

one college verges on the border of kentucky and west virginia and the other.....well is in oklahoma.

let's hope we're not setting our hopes up for a doctor/scientist to come up with a cure for cancer from any one of those 2 busted ass schools.

they should be called ohio riverrats or whiskey runner and the oklahoma state tumbleweeds or sister fuckers.

i betcha they both got a diploma with a major in ass tinkering.

Zombo said:

Well, first of all, you were one bounce of the football from being 7-9 last year.

I still don't see anything impressive at running back, and you let your best long-ball threat go, and your tight end is getting long in the tooth so ... your weapons aren't better.

Even Steeler fans will admit that some of the recent draft picks along the offensive line are looking less than sterling.

Defensively, you still have the best DC in the business, but you are relying on a lot of 30+ starters ... including three in the secondary. I'm not saying they can't play anymore ... I'm saying old guys get injured.

I like your linebackers, Ben's a dickhead but he's a playmaker, so you'll win some games. 8-8 ish would be a good goal. Probably 7-9. Just getting too old. Plus both Ohio teams looks much improved.

Zombo

@erie-dawg said:

Soooo you are saying franchise qbs are no big deal. If one goes down, throw another guy in and the team will function in identical fashion. A statement im sure you know is insane.

Also I went through the list and gave you examples that you quickly dismiss...

@erie-dawg said:

Kap was drafted in the second round to be the heir apparent with a Coach known for deleoping quarterbacks. Maddox didn't get pulled because he sucked, he got pulled because he was hurt. Flynn had ONE enormous game and that was enough apparently to be enticed by the Seahawks. He hasn't done sh.it since. Cassell was the back up for several years and at least knew the system and that offense is all dink and dunk. As I said Manning goes down the Broncos are going to struggle. Brady goes down the same, Brees gets hurt, who are the Saints? Matt Ryan? run the list. I could go through any number of arguments, as could anyone else and pick it apart. Franchise qb's are franchise qb's for a reason. You build the team around them and when they get injured you're scrambling for an answer. Yes sometimes you escape without a huge issue, see the Steelers without Ben during his suspension going 3-1 but the Steelers never would have pushed for a Super Bowl without Ben and once again go back and run the list.;

@miktoxic said:

I'm a Browns fan, but Ben looks worst than Weeden, who looks like a country bumpkin actor from The Real McCoys?! Ben is also a lot smarter than Weeden.

@vagitron said:

Tom Brady was a bit of a anomaly because he was drafted so late. However the Pats offense is dink and dunk which is a system easily picked up by a young quarterback. Ben was drafted in the first round as the heir apparent. Aaron Rodgers the same and the list goes on. My point sir was that in most cases if a franchise qb goes down in season that team is going to struggle. Brady goes down they have to throw in Mallet. Manning goes down it's Brock Oseweiller. Rodgers goes down, i have no idea who they even have behind rodgers after Flynn went to Seattle. Run the list of teams in the NFL with franchise qbs and try and equate how that team would fare. Ben also wasn't third string. He was playing right behind Tommy Maddox. Sooooooo you're absolutely correct the Steelers would struggle without Ben, so would the Packers without Rodgers, the Pats without Brady, the Broncos without Manning, the Colts without luck. Run the list yourself. Don't mince words you knew exactly what I meant when I said it and unless you're trying to be intentionally difficult you too agree.

Bens rookie year going into camp. Depth chart.

maddox.

Batch.

Big gay.

Batch got hurt bumped big gay up to 2nd, Maddox sucked big gay started playing.

When rogers went down for a game who came in and Almost beat a very solid team. Matt flynn. And set qb records in green bay.

How about the year Brady went down Castle lead the patriots to an 11-5 record.

How about Collins Kapernick last year came off the bench and went to the S.B.

So just because a starter goes down don't mean shit... unless your the steelers like mik pointed out.

@erie-dawg said:

Tom Brady was a bit of a anomaly because he was drafted so late. However the Pats offense is dink and dunk which is a system easily picked up by a young quarterback. Ben was drafted in the first round as the heir apparent. Aaron Rodgers the same and the list goes on. My point sir was that in most cases if a franchise qb goes down in season that team is going to struggle. Brady goes down they have to throw in Mallet. Manning goes down it's Brock Oseweiller. Rodgers goes down, i have no idea who they even have behind rodgers after Flynn went to Seattle. Run the list of teams in the NFL with franchise qbs and try and equate how that team would fare. Ben also wasn't third string. He was playing right behind Tommy Maddox. Sooooooo you're absolutely correct the Steelers would struggle without Ben, so would the Packers without Rodgers, the Pats without Brady, the Broncos without Manning, the Colts without luck. Run the list yourself. Don't mince words you knew exactly what I meant when I said it and unless you're trying to be intentionally difficult you too agree.

@vagitron said:

The same can be said for every team in the lg with a franchise qb, your point is moot.

How did tom brady get his shot?

How about big rape did he start game one of his rookie season? he was 3rd string.

so your point is moot.

Im expecting a reply from you that goes on for 5 worthless paragraphs that preety much says it rarely happens, yada yada yada, great when called apon shows promise.

@miktoxic said:

The same can be said for every team in the lg with a franchise qb, your point is moot.

it's amazing how long he holds onto the ball peels half of these guys off his body and can still complete a pass.

but the time on thaqt is running out as DCs know how to attack him sending the guys into knock him around, knock the ball out of his hand or just plain hurt him.

without him you have no shot whatsoever.

@the-gipper said:

Gipper you have proven time and time again you know nothing about the other teams in the divison. If you didnt have google you wouldnt even be able to act like you do. Worilds and heyward have also played better than average and 34 dlinemen are there.to occupy blocks not rack up crazy sack totals. Please just stop acting like you know what you are talking about, the charade has outstayed its welcome.

@vagitron said:

We follow our rivals just fine. We just don't overrate them like you do.

Heyward and Worilds have played some....and at a very average level.

And you are right, you have no idea how Bell and Thomas will play (nor how Jones or any other rookie will play). They could be good, they could be mediocre, they could be bad.