I do not think McFadden and Gipson stink. I think both will have some difficulties this year, yes, but I don't think they stink. If you actually read my posts you'll note that my biggest concern with the Browns' secondary is the back up positions at cornerback and safety.

Players like Owens, Wade, Skrine and Bademosi are not adequate to step in and play at the high level required for pass defense success in the NFL. QBs from around the league will go right at them when they are in there. We saw the same thing last year, and the Browns gave up an enormous number of TDs through the air. I am concerned the same is going to happen this year, despite the supposedly improved pass rush.

That is why I was so disappointed that the Browns didn't use the 4th and 5th round picks to add quality talent like all america safety Thomas from Fresno State and the fine DB prospect, D.W. Webb from William and Mary. Browns blew a wonderful opportunity to add quality depth in the secondary and that mistake will be very evident as the regular season unfolds and starters get hurt.

And you've still got no proof that they [McFadden and Gipson] stink other than your blathering mindless assertion.

You're wrong.

And what makes you right, if you don't mind mr asking?

And what makes you right, if you don't mind mr asking?

Just thinking of the idea that Owens and Bademosi might turn out to be Pro Bowlers has me roilling on the floor in laughter! Thanks for comedic relief!

No, as I don't know if I agree with it. At least it is not one of your idiotic rants on the secondary.

Here is the bottom line: YOU and I, and everyone else, are just going to have to wait and see how this all turns out with the secondary.

We are going to have to wait and see how these guys play. They may be the absolute buss that you think they are. They may both turn out to be Pro Bowlers. More than likely, it will be somewhere in between.

And there won't be a damn thing you can say...or do about it.

Unless you want to buy the team.

Some people are high on TJ Ward. In my view he's a little overrated, plus he gets hurt a lot. But the difference in talent level between Patterson of Arizona and Ward is like night and day.

More like night and dusk.

It only doesn't work because it doesn't fit with your stance.

Considering one was the 7th overall pick and another was a 2nd round pick, that should be expected.

Re Ward and Patterson, I'm just talking about overall atheltic ability and playmaking ability.

@the-gipper said:

Skeptical2013 said:

And I am the guy telling you that if Ward, Haden, Gipson and McFadden get hurt, there is nothing behind them of quality, and that includes in nickel and dime packages, too. Owens is a stiff, like Dimitri Patterson. Besides which you overestimate the impact of McFadden this coming season, who in his rookie year, is going to struggle, especially against bigger receivers . Over time McFadden may turn out to be a fine CB, but rookie CBs usually struggle, unlesss their name is Patrick Patterson.

So, what you want this team to have is a secondary that is 8 deep in Pro Bowlers. Wake up. That isn't going to happen. Sure McFadden...just like every rookie drafted from #1 overall to Mr. Irrelevent, is a question mark. That is why they are called rookies.

I think it's interesting that Arizona, Horton's last team, went out and got a tremendously athletic safety in Patterson who played a key role in making Horton's defense good last year. But the Browns don't seem to emphasize the position in this defense. Bizarre.

What is Bizarre is that you think that. The Browns have the best Strong safety in the AFCN...and another guy that they must think is better than some 4th or 5th rounder that you think should have been drafted. A guy that has a year under his belt of actually playing in the NFofL. A guy they can evaluate who has played against the Steelers and Bengals, not against Louisana-Atchafalaya or whomever the SEC pads their records against.

Some people are high on TJ Ward. In my view he's a little overrated, plus he gets hurt a lot. But the difference in talent level between Patterson of Arizona and Ward is like night and day.

Considering that they play different positions, that should be expected.

@the-gipper said:

Skeptical2013 said:

And I am the guy telling you that if Ward, Haden, Gipson and McFadden get hurt, there is nothing behind them of quality, and that includes in nickel and dime packages, too. Owens is a stiff, like Dimitri Patterson. Besides which you overestimate the impact of McFadden this coming season, who in his rookie year, is going to struggle, especially against bigger receivers . Over time McFadden may turn out to be a fine CB, but rookie CBs usually struggle, unlesss their name is Patrick Patterson.

So, what you want this team to have is a secondary that is 8 deep in Pro Bowlers. Wake up. That isn't going to happen. Sure McFadden...just like every rookie drafted from #1 overall to Mr. Irrelevent, is a question mark. That is why they are called rookies.

I think it's interesting that Arizona, Horton's last team, went out and got a tremendously athletic safety in Patterson who played a key role in making Horton's defense good last year. But the Browns don't seem to emphasize the position in this defense. Bizarre.

What is Bizarre is that you think that. The Browns have the best Strong safety in the AFCN...and another guy that they must think is better than some 4th or 5th rounder that you think should have been drafted. A guy that has a year under his belt of actually playing in the NFofL. A guy they can evaluate who has played against the Steelers and Bengals, not against Louisana-Atchafalaya or whomever the SEC pads their records against.

Some people are high on TJ Ward. In my view he's a little overrated, plus he gets hurt a lot. But the difference in talent level between Patterson of Arizona and Ward is like night and day.

Skeptical2013 said:

And I am the guy telling you that if Ward, Haden, Gipson and McFadden get hurt, there is nothing behind them of quality, and that includes in nickel and dime packages, too. Owens is a stiff, like Dimitri Patterson. Besides which you overestimate the impact of McFadden this coming season, who in his rookie year, is going to struggle, especially against bigger receivers . Over time McFadden may turn out to be a fine CB, but rookie CBs usually struggle, unlesss their name is Patrick Patterson.

So, what you want this team to have is a secondary that is 8 deep in Pro Bowlers. Wake up. That isn't going to happen. Sure McFadden...just like every rookie drafted from #1 overall to Mr. Irrelevent, is a question mark. That is why they are called rookies.

I think it's interesting that Arizona, Horton's last team, went out and got a tremendously athletic safety in Patterson who played a key role in making Horton's defense good last year. But the Browns don't seem to emphasize the position in this defense. Bizarre.

What is Bizarre is that you think that. The Browns have the best Strong safety in the AFCN...and another guy that they must think is better than some 4th or 5th rounder that you think should have been drafted. A guy that has a year under his belt of actually playing in the NFofL. A guy they can evaluate who has played against the Steelers and Bengals, not against Louisana-Atchafalaya or whomever the SEC pads their records against.

Some people are high on TJ Ward. In my view he's a little overrated, plus he gets hurt a lot. But the difference in talent level between Patterson of Arizona and Ward is like night and day.

Sorry, I don't follow you much outside of your replies to my posts, or threads I am active in, you're kind of an idiot.

Are you saying we should have taken Tavon Austin at #6?

Wouldn't we still go 0-16 anyway because we have no depth at safety?

Zombo

So it's only worthwhile because you agree with it?

That's the problem with this board

And I am the guy telling you that if Ward, Haden, Gipson and McFadden get hurt, there is nothing behind them of quality, and that includes in nickel and dime packages, too. Owens is a stiff, like Dimitri Patterson. Besides which you overestimate the impact of McFadden this coming season, who in his rookie year, is going to struggle, especially against bigger receivers . Over time McFadden may turn out to be a fine CB, but rookie CBs usually struggle, unlesss their name is Patrick Patterson.

So, what you want this team to have is a secondary that is 8 deep in Pro Bowlers. Wake up. That isn't going to happen. Sure McFadden...just like every rookie drafted from #1 overall to Mr. Irrelevent, is a question mark. That is why they are called rookies.

I think it's interesting that Arizona, Horton's last team, went out and got a tremendously athletic safety in Patterson who played a key role in making Horton's defense good last year. But the Browns don't seem to emphasize the position in this defense. Bizarre.

What is Bizarre is that you think that. The Browns have the best Strong safety in the AFCN...and another guy that they must think is better than some 4th or 5th rounder that you think should have been drafted. A guy that has a year under his belt of actually playing in the NFofL. A guy they can evaluate who has played against the Steelers and Bengals, not against Louisana-Atchafalaya or whomever the SEC pads their records against.

Very good post, thanks for contributing it. My concern with Mingo is that when I watched LSU games last year -- and down here in SEC country I saw at least snippets from most of them -- is that he got pushed out of the way a lot. This will be a real challenge for Ray Horton and the staff. Mingo seems to have a good head on his shoulders -- very mature in contrast to Geno Smith -- and he knows his weaknesses better than anyone else. But one big advantage Horton has is that Mingo will be a great pupil and fast learner. That's just who he is. And that means a lot given all Horton will ask him to do.

It also says something about Mingo that his LSU teammate, Chris Faulk, who was in big demand around the league, decided to sign with Cleveland because he thinks so highly of his buddy Mingo. Don't underestimate the value of having Faulk come here -- he's going to be a big time contributor on the Browns OL.

Actually, (Steve) Austin is the Six Million Dollar Man. He was played by Lee Majors in that TV show. Maybe that's why T. Austin is so good.

Another Austin is Kurt, who is the lead character in a series of novels that Clive Clusser, one of my favs, writes.

Then there is Austin, Texas. It's a shame that Tavon Austin wasn't named Austin Austin and be from Austin, Texas.

Makes me wonder: with his big new contract, will T. Austin drive an Austin Healey?