Skeptical2013 said:

The only support you are getting is probably from your bra.

Here's another clue for you: no one cares if you are upset.

@the-gipper said:

HELLO to you and because guys get hurt and backups will start a fair amount that is why I am so upset Lombardi didn't use the 4th and 5th round picks to upgrade the secondary! Thanks for supporting my argument!

@shep said:

I maintain: it takes ELEVEN GOOD players to have a good defense, not seven.

Re Tampa Bay, I guess you didn't notice that they invested an enormous amount of money to upgrade their secondary, which in their view was a major reason they missed the playoffs last year!

@shep said:

And the Chiefs had 5 or 6 players on their defense make the Pro Bowl.

And Tampa Bay was the best run defense in the league by every measure (yards, YPC) last season. Which added up to a whole lot of nothin'.

Skeptical2013 said:

@unsympathetic said:

I don't know. Sometimes that is true, like in the case of Aaron Rodgers. The reverse is true too. I think AJ Green in Cincy makes Andy Dalton look better than he is. Megatron makes his QB look good, too.

Then look at other situations: Joe Montana was great, but I do believe Jerry Rice would have been great with an NFL average QB.

@the-gipper said:

I agree, but what I am saying is that expect Gipson to make his share of mistakes this year, and that wil hurt the Browns defense. I'm rooting for Gipson. I'm especially rooting for him to stay healthy because his back up is inadequate. Bademosi wasn't even a big impact player in college but he has some speed, is smart, and like the Browns, I am intrigued with him as a developmental project at safety. But to expect him to step in if Gispon gets hurt and play well this year -- well, that's a stretch I think.

@shep said:

Sheard is a quality talent. Really glad we kept him.

Skeptical2013 said:

If that is your attitude, then only veterans should ever play....yet, how do those veterans ever get experience? By playing when they were young.

We had an "experienced veteran" in Usama Young. He sucked. So now the team wants to go with the seemingly better, though younger player.

In case you didn't notice, the Browns are on a youth kick. They have exactly 3 players on this roster currently 30 or older;

Rashad Butler 30

Jason Campbell 31

Shayne Graham K 35

So, clearly, a play having a lot of experience is not a priority of this team.

@the-gipper said:

Practice what you preach. Let Gipson start playing before you start calling him "bust".

I never said he was a bust. I said he's done nothing to deserve the starting job.

You act like he didn't play last year.

@shep said:

It's all about the QB and the OL on offense. Great QB's make their WR's great - every time. WR's are shiny hood ornaments that do not change anything by themselves. Jerry Rice joined a team that already won the NFL but whose leading receiver was a RB.. if he was drafted by the Raiders, he wouldn't have been the jerry rice of WR's.

On D, if your DL dominates, you win.

Here is an explanation including historical win% correlation and here is the 2012 stat list.

http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/05/browns-film-room-jabaal-sheard/

@the-gipper said:

Gipson only started three games last season. Even if he winds up being a decent NFL player, he still has a long learning curve in front of him. Playing free safety in the NFL requires smart decision making, and that often only comes from experience.

@calfoxwc said:

I do agree with you that the coaching staff will do a much better job of capitalizing on player strengths. That should translate to better performance, but maybe not quite good enough to improve the won-loss record much.

You mention the Rams. Keep an eye on them. With their fine drafting et al, including the addition of super rocket Tavon Austin, the Rams offense will go to a new level and their defense will be much improved thanks to smart drafting the past two years. And as Tavon Austin helps transform the Rams into a playoff contender, think of the fact that the Browns could have drafted Austin instead of Mingo. I'll be watching that closely this year.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Practice what you preach. Let Gipson start playing before you start calling him "bust".

Skeptical2013 said:

@slowburn said:

Ronnie Lott was a safety, not a corner

My optimism is as much about the unified vision of the organization as anything: Attack aggressively with the pass early in games, take first half leads, force the other team to keep up, get after the passer. Better, analytics-loving Lombardi even put numbers to it, talking about winning teams, how much they pass in the first half, and how much it means to win the first half.

Obviously, everything matters but the real keys to that plan is to have great quarterback play and great individual pass rushers. The former is obvious, the latter is about getting after the passer without blitzes that expose coverage to smart quarterbacks. I always associate it with Manning-Freeney (and Mathis) and Rodgers-Clay. Giants elevated in two championship runs with a hot QB and a fierce pass rush. The year the Saints won, Will Smith was a Pro Bowler with 11 or 12 sacks. Steelers won when the combo of Ben and James Harrison was strong. Not so much as Harrison faded.

I also like the talk about "Team Building," the new NFL catchphrase. I've bitched for years that you can win in April but lose in September by not realizing how to structure your team and allocate assets. Best example: Draft a corner really high. Draftnicks just love them some corners. No team has drafted corners in or just outside of the top 10 more than Buffalo in the past five years. Buffalo. As in, a consistently bad team lacking a franchise quarterback.

The other recent teams: Browns, Cards, Cowboys. Drafting corners gets you a high grade but they don't change fortunes because they can't have that kind of impact since the Ty Law rules. And three of those four teams lacked a franchise quarterback when they drafted a corner in the top 10. I find it fascinating to look at where really good teams find their corners: Steelers, Ravens, Seahawks, Packers, Niners, and so on. Teams that get after the passer find guys like Taylor, Lewis, Webb, Sherman, Hayward, and Culliver and turn them into really good cover guys.

For me, drafting corners or running backs too high is a little out of whack. On a perfectly built team with a plan, you want your quarterback, left tackle, and primary pass rusher to be the highest paid players on the team. You put your highest assets against those three spots, including draft picks.

hit the bigtime. I'm also tired of talking about the former Browns coaches that drafted poorly, and tried to

fit square pegs into their round system, and vice versa. An aggressive team that makes mistakes is a team

that will be far closer to winning several games, than a "read and react" bs team that dwells in mediocrity.

And this Browns coaching staff knows how to utilize the players per their strengths. And that will

set the players free to enjoy the game.

Big, huge difference I see this coming season.

@calfoxwc said:

I appreciate your enthusiasm to for the 2013 Browns, but teams at all levels of football -- from NAIA and Division3 on up to the Seelers and Ravens -- all have many players who love the game of football and are tenacious, intelligent and have a strong work ethic. Over the last 14 years it has been very clear that other teams, in fact, have assembled more of these types of football players than the Browns because they have won billions more football games. Many of the Browns on the 2012 version that was a loser are on the 2013 version.

The 2012 Browns had a terrible head coach, a below average offensive coordinator but the defense had one of the most respected defensive coordinators in football on any level. Coaching can make a difference, of course, but on the pro level it takes more than enthusiasm and intelligence and coaching -- you have to have talent.

Barkevious Mingo is a fine prospect. But he has an uphill battle in order to be a good player in the NFL. He is undersized to play the LB/DE position in the NFL and the game tapes show he was pushed around some in the SEC, let alone what will happen in the NFL. He needs to get a lot stronger.

Mingo also is learning a totally new position for him -- LB vs. DE. Now he'll probably line up as a DE in some sets, but mostly he'll be moved around in different OLB sets. Mingo is a very intelligent and motivated young man -- one of the best people, character wise, the Browns have acquired in the draft in some time, in my view -- but it's not going to be easy for anyone on this team to execute this complex playbook in year one. Many mistakes are going to be made.

When you combine the learning process, along with the lack of strengh issues, Mingo has an uphill battle in 2013.

Sheard is also learning a totally new position. That won't be easy, either And it won't be easy for McFadden, another intelligent guy, to cover some of the outstanding receivers in the NFL as an undersized rookie CB. Gipson? He started 3 games last year at safety. He also has a huge learning curve in a very important position.

The Browns defense in 2013 will be a work in progress and please don't expect to see a well oiled machine in motion on opening day, no matter how much enthusiasm they bring to the task. Or much of 2013 for that matter. It's not going to happen.

I appreciate that the Browns players have good coaches and players are motivated, but also don't underestimate that other teams have similar situations. The NFL is an ultra competitive business, a dog eat dog world where lack of success is penalized quickly. And this highly competitive league has not been kind to Cleveland Browns football the past 14 years.

I do believe the Browns have good coaches and some fine players this year. But maybe not enough good players and backups to fight a lof teams on an even keel. Lack of quality depth is a huge issue for the Browns at tight end and in the defensive secondary, maybe in the kicking game, too.

The coaches will do their best to put a good product on the field. But much of their success is dependent on the ability of Joe Banner and Mike Lombardi to bring in good players for them. On that score, we now have a free agency period and a draft period with which to evaluate Banner and Lombardi.

Given the fact the Browns had the most cap room of any team in the league, and given the fact they had a high draft pick position, the off-season work they have done only gets a C- from me. Other teams did a lot better with far less -- making the Browns climb back to the top that much more difficult The Browns could have been much smarter in how they used their free agency money -- bringing in better CBs than Owens and better TEs than Davis and pass rusher other than Kruger who can actually help the team stop the run as well as the pass. In fact, with a few exceptions , the Browns really blew it in free agency and that opinion is reinforced by some of the lousy grades experts gave the Browns' free agency efforts.

Then there was the draft. A team that has so many holes to fill, the Browns decided to opt out of the 4th and 5th rounds while other teams eagerly filled the void and got better. Again, the experts rated the Browns among the worst of the several dozen NFL teams.

Ther is nothing wrong with being optimistic. But temper that optimisim with reality. We saw in 2012 huge crowds visit Browns training camp with high hopes for a successful 2012 season. It didn't happen. The same thing is going to haven this summer, too -- much optimism with a new coaching staff. Just go in with both eyes wide open. There will be some positives. But there will also be some negatives. The fact that TRich and TE Jordan Cameron are already sitting out practices is not a good sign as they miss valuable time interacting with their teammates on the football field as the players learn individually and collectively how to executive the new offensive playbook.

On defense, people will watch practice and ooh and ahh as guys aggressively rush the passer. But hidden in all lthat pass rush abandon is the fact that the Browns did not acquire players this offseason who are known for their run stopping capability, a major Browns weakness. Browns also do not have quality players at all to back up guys in the secondary like Ward, Haden, McFadden and Gipson. The secondary is in for a difficult time even with all the starters on the field. Without some of them, it will be a total rout.

As we prepare for the 2013 season, let's hope for the best, but be realisitc about what we can expect. That way Browns fans can avoid another crushing dose of reality, the kind of crushing dose of reality Indians fans have now experienced over the past week. Having big hopes soundly dashed is not a fun thing to experience. Unfortunately, those feelings have just been another day at the office for Browns fans thse past 14 years.

be a hell of a lot of fun to watch, a breath of fresh air, and Kruger, Mingo, Sheard, McFadden and Gipson

are all the same type of player in regard to their love of the game, tenacity, intelligence, on and off the field,

work ethic... I think they are going to kick ass. Others are worried that they haven't done it yet. The upside is,

this coaching staff KNOWS what they are doing. Some of us are giving a great vote of confidence now.

Some won't do that until they get the Browns a win in the superbowl, before they will have confidence in them. I'm with the first group.

Shep has great stuff going on the subject. Very cool.

@shep said:

And someone on the topic, Couch: Are you suggesting that the Browns don't have better personnel than last year's Cards? Because I would heartily disagree. There was certainly no Phil Taylor or Rubin and I think we have a legit 5-tech in Desmond Bryant who will rival Campbell. Also love Billy Winn. Those two guys fit the 3-4 better than the 4-3.

DQJ was a Pro Bowl Alternate for the third time last year and I'm a huge Craig Robertson fan (fast, great tackler, really fits). JMJ brings nice depth. OLB? Marquee position in the 3-4? Not close with Kruger, Mingo, Sheard, and Groves.

Corner? Haden and McFadden would be as good or better than Peterson and Gay. Nice set of nickels in Skrine and Owens. At worst a wash. T.J. Ward is clearly the best safety between the two teams and you know I really like Tashaun Gipson and Bademosi.

Way, way better personnel here, especially with a couple wide bodies so we aren't a sieve against the run like his Cards. They lacked a serious NT, as Sobo has written a lot. He thinks the biggest advantages are Taylor, Rubin, and all the OLBs.

I like the brass coming off like they actually understand what league it is and what year: Attack with the pass, take first half leads, rush the passer. Bam.

I believe we have the potential to have a greater front 7, but Kruger, Mingo and Sheard are all question marks. None of them can be graded as none of them have played in their positions.

Same goes for McFadden and Gipson.

Half of our starters are either rookies or new to their positions.

@shep said:

And thus ends the fun part of our conversation!!

The guy who would match up with Sheard would be an edge rusher, friend. Not a 5-tech or ILB. That didn't even make sense and I won't even say anything like "fucking idiot." I'll let you figure that out on your own!

Horton does love blitzing up the middle which is why I love Robertson's explosion there (and same size as Washington). But on the edge at 3-4 OLB, he at least arguably didn't have anyone as good as Kruger, Mingo, OR Sheard. He did have someone as good as Quentin Groves. Named Quentin Groves. Now a Brown (!).

You need to hold a conversation like a grownup now. Come on.

The question wasn't whether the Cardinals had a premier edge rusher, it was whether or not they had a productive pass rusher.

Regardless of the position in which the pressure came from, the Cardinals had an effective pass rush from two key positions.

That either proves that:

A- Horton can identify the strengths of his personnel and utilize them effectively, which is a welcome quality that's been lost as of late in Cleveland.

OR

B- Horton's defensive system isn't as highly based on edge rushing as everybody has been claiming.

I think it's both. While having a stable of capable edge rushers is a very nice commodity, Horton's system is based on creating pressure from every single position. I don't think he'll dial down his blitzes from other positions just because we have some possibly capable edge rushers.

It will be interesting to see what Horton does with our personnel.