@mld-woody said:

Of course it affects people like you and I more than social issues, but hopefully we won't be feeling the squeeze like so many people are. I see no progress being made on the economy and until I do I believe social issues don't need to be taking up congress' time.

Look at it this way:

You have two problems that need to be solved. One has to do with life or death of a large percentage of the population and the other has to do with giving a small percentage a title just so they can feel more official. Which requires your immediate and undivided attention? Life or death, economy, ensuring people have steady jobs so they can afford food and other things essential to life. It is not that you cannot work on both at once, you can, but I would personally rather see congress secure the nations future before they work on giving gays a title.

I would like to leave it at that because I feel this is just you and I butting heads on the issue. Let's agree to disagree?

@mld-woody said:

The state of our economy obviously affects you. You are a citizen of thus country.

Gays being allowed to get married, removing some mention of religion in schools, or allowing women to choose to have an abortion probably don't affect you nearly as directly.

Actually woody, and I'm not just messing with you, there are a lot of laws that don't affect me personally.

The libertarian in me would like to see lots of them just disregarded and kicked to the curb.

We can take up different issues and different threads especially because this one has really lost its way but that's one of the best reasons to not oppose gay marriage.

Because it doesn't make any difference to me if they get married or not.

There are no ill effects on my life if they choose to do so.

Maybe some people Would say it should be banned because it offends them.

Of course I don't think that we have a right, or at least that we should have a right, to not be offended.

And the reason people keep bringing up Obama is because the empty suit opposed gay marriage when it was politically advantageous for him. That's all.

But again this was a thread about political cronyism.

WSS

@blowe said:

Woody if everything goes to plan for me I should be able to get a job that pays me well right out of college so the economy does not affect me as much, yet still I see a larger issue that requires in my opinion 100% of our attention. I just want to see most these social issues put on the back burner for a while so we can focus on maintaining a free and prosperous nation. Once that has been accomplished then I have no issue with congress debating social issues. Ya dig?

Bro, I'm gonna be getting an engineering degree from Michigan, I'm not worried about a job either. The economy as a whole affects you more directly than these social issues.

Solving the social issues is theoretically much easier as well.

Plus, again, why are we as a couple try only allowed to work on one thing at a time?

@diehardbrownsfan said:

Woody changes all topics to the gay agenda. Hmmmmm........

And all you can do is point out typos and insinuate that I'm gay

Hmmmmmm.....

@mld-woody said:

@blowe said:

Seriously, Hooker nailed it. It's not that I hate gays.. I have a couple gay friends who I love like brothers. But can we get our freaking priorities straight? I am a student and aspire to become an engineer. The job market for computer engineers is pretty solid, yet my #1 concern is the economy. Note: it does not affect me as much yet I still give a damn. So there goes your horrible argument about "it doesn't affect me so we shouldn't worry about it."

The state of our economy obviously affects you. You are a citizen of thus country.

Gays being allowed to get married, removing some mention of religion in schools, or allowing women to choose to have an abortion probably don't affect you nearly as directly.

@fairhooker11 said:

I dont know if any one else is SICK and TIRED of these freakin social issues!!

for crying out loud... we (conservatives) have had ENOUGH of this BS, like gay marriage!

there are still people who are looking for jobs, dont have any money in the stock market,

looking at SS benefits being given freely to special interest, illegal immigrants , favor to the few.

And we have a corrupt legislative body operating in Washington DC for thier personal benefit?

And meanwhile... we have to pander to the poor gays? comeon......

Hell yeah, can I get an amen!

And I never mentioned Obama

As I said, it's all about priorities. Ours are completely backwards

Woody- its true, it doesnt affect me personally, and I wont pretend to think that any opposition to the gay agenda is helpful.

but by its design in the public discussion, it held alot of people "captive" unwittingly while these other really important issues still exist!

and it was all about the regimes campaign strategy...

point taken about prolife - although the unborn will never get as much attention and scope that the gays now enjoy....

and I am tempted to say, "well if Bush used prolife in his campaign..." it wouldnt matter anyway!

Im frustrated about "shipwrecked" lives of the recent recession - like yesterdays news....

forgotten by most but still affecting many.

This plays back into the conservatives on this board. "It doesn't affect me, so we shouldn't waste time on it."

for crying out loud... we (conservatives) have had ENOUGH of this BS, like gay marriage!

there are still people who are looking for jobs, dont have any money in the stock market,

looking at SS benefits being given freely to special interest, illegal immigrants , favor to the few.

And we have a corrupt legislative body operating in Washington DC for thier personal benefit?

And meanwhile... we have to pander to the poor gays? comeon......

2. Yes. But the kids I was referring to, were joining because they were patriotic. I said they

were very, very, very patriotic. That's three "verys" Woody. You will know when you are no longer

a liberal weinie when you FREAKIN STOP going the straw man route to try to make a point. Your #2 is based

on what doesn't exist.

3. I don't think so. Eventually, the tide will turn on that, were it to go national. Technically, it might if

4 or 5 Supreme Court justices somehow die (see Holder and Obamao maybe), and Obamao replaced

them before he left office.....

4. Some liberals grow and adjust. They become Americans first, and often become a lot, or at least somewhat conservative.

IOW's, there is no op to grow, if emotionally verbally acting out on cue is the rule. Which it is.

Liberals are locked into emotionally seeing issues. So, growing in understanding via knowledge and personal experiences

doesn't happen. That is why there are MANY really stupid prominent liberal quotes in that thread.

@calfoxwc said:

things change, yes.

But they also change back to the better. Society adjusts

it's mores. I remember it used to be, per some, especially one on this board,

"the death of the Republican party once and for all."

That was before Reagan. Then , incredibly, the same statement was made after Bill Clinton

won a second term. Then, there was two terms of President Bush. Now, there is two terms of the worst,

most bigoted, authoritarian marxist liberal pouty face in American history.

For instance - the show "Duck Dynasty" is a HUGE, HUGE hit, and that show's families embrace Christianity

and guns and hunting and fishing and love and family values in every episode. And it is fiercely popular with kids. Teens, younger kids.

Millions of folks across the age spectrum love the show. Because, imho, society doesn't want to give up the good, healthy

things about life.

The show is honest and ornery and very funny. My Wife's longest and best friend just retired from teaching...

and she said Duck Dynasty t-shirts are worn a a LOT of kids at different grades.

Empires fall, Woody. People rise up and say "enough is enough" all the time, eventually. One of our friends' kids

sat out with me one night last summer, and talked around the campfire about stuff til 2 in the morning. Interesting.

Some of his friends are very, very, very patriotic, and were going to join the Navy this year, after the summer

was over.

Back in the day, gays were ridiculed as a group, a lot of places. Society learned that that is wrong, and hurtful, despite

the angst about gays lifestyles whatever. but it is foolish to think that society will decide to destroy the institution of marriage

because "things change". Society, like people (well, except liberal people...@@) learn and grow. But learning and growing

is good - but adherence to "change" is nonsense. Humans and societies adapt, and change for the better. That's all.

Society never changes itself for the worst intentionally. And when the "worst" happens.. it changes back to a good direction.

Like the folks in England. They want they guns back, want to reverse the gun control garbage. It doesn't work. They want to change it back

now.

2) being patriotic and serving your country doesn't only happen if you're a conservative. I don't expect the will to serve your country to go away. Then again there are a lot of other reasons to join the military; financial, bad grades, unsure what you want to do, etc

3) Do you really think national gay marriage isn't going to happen? It is. That's another example of social issues swaying liberal over time. Before interracial marriage was a liberal stance, now gay marriage, in a couple decades maybe something else that would sound ridiculous today. I'm sure if you just looked at the social state in like the 30s, things we consider middle of the road or even conservative now would be very liberal back then

4) So liberals don't learn or grow but CONSERVatives do? Liberals are the ones that don't adjust or change?

@westside-steve said:

you think Mitt Romney and John McCain were Tea Party candidates? do you think George W Bush was?Do you actually know anything? Do you realize that the only issue you seem to care about is gay marriage and the empty suit in chief opposed it?

but back to the subject this is just ordinary garden variety graft.

WSS

No I don't think they were. But I think they were bending to the will of a more conservative group then average, middle of the road american are comfortable with

@mld-woody said:

Oh shit I used the word feel

More free shit vs less free shit is a lame excuse. Seriously, look at the two candidates and their VPs each time.

McCain and Palin? Really?

And Romney wasn't much better.

The Reps aren't going to win putting up candidates like that and then going hard with conservative social issues while public opinion is moving to the left

but back to the subject this is just ordinary garden variety graft.

WSS

But they also change back to the better. Society adjusts

it's mores. I remember it used to be, per some, especially one on this board,

"the death of the Republican party once and for all."

That was before Reagan. Then , incredibly, the same statement was made after Bill Clinton

won a second term. Then, there was two terms of President Bush. Now, there is two terms of the worst,

most bigoted, authoritarian marxist liberal pouty face in American history.

For instance - the show "Duck Dynasty" is a HUGE, HUGE hit, and that show's families embrace Christianity

and guns and hunting and fishing and love and family values in every episode. And it is fiercely popular with kids. Teens, younger kids.

Millions of folks across the age spectrum love the show. Because, imho, society doesn't want to give up the good, healthy

things about life.

The show is honest and ornery and very funny. My Wife's longest and best friend just retired from teaching...

and she said Duck Dynasty t-shirts are worn a a LOT of kids at different grades.

Empires fall, Woody. People rise up and say "enough is enough" all the time, eventually. One of our friends' kids

sat out with me one night last summer, and talked around the campfire about stuff til 2 in the morning. Interesting.

Some of his friends are very, very, very patriotic, and were going to join the Navy this year, after the summer

was over.

Back in the day, gays were ridiculed as a group, a lot of places. Society learned that that is wrong, and hurtful, despite

the angst about gays lifestyles whatever. but it is foolish to think that society will decide to destroy the institution of marriage

because "things change". Society, like people (well, except liberal people...@@) learn and grow. But learning and growing

is good - but adherence to "change" is nonsense. Humans and societies adapt, and change for the better. That's all.

Society never changes itself for the worst intentionally. And when the "worst" happens.. it changes back to a good direction.

Like the folks in England. They want they guns back, want to reverse the gun control garbage. It doesn't work. They want to change it back

now.