medical insurance system is broken.

well, costs are skyrocketing. I know far more about it than I used to.

Obamaocare won't control that. You think the Obamaocare tax on med devices

will lower the cost of the same? I'm all for dems and reps getting off their collective high horses,

and writing a bill that people can OPTIONALLY simple take advantage of, without the gigantic leftist

power play.

Trust me, the law would be far, far, far smaller when you printed it out. And nobody would have their

lives ruined by it - referring to losing hours on the job, losing jobs, losing their ability to go to the dr

they have always gone to.

Obamaocare does a lot of serious crap that it should not be doing. Forcing health insurance to cover

pre existing conditions?

I'm fine with that. Except if you go look at rates, and how they are calc'd... how in the world does anybody

really expect their premiums not to go up?

Seriously. It's very bad bill. The dems are admitting the very serious problems. It's so bad, so huge, so intrusive

into the lives of other folks who are fine where they are, so expensive it can NOT be afforded over time.

Look at how much of our nation's budget is welfare - entitlement spending.

Now, in a few years, if not stopped, this Obamaocare will dwarf that in costs. And it can not

be sustained. Hell, that will surely push us over 20 trillion in debt.

The Obamaocare web site used to advertise "free health care". Now, they have taken that off the site.

IOW's, as always, the leftists who wanted this passed make emotional promises. They just weren't valid.

So you can shove your usual instigation of personal insults over some feigned slight. This bill has

very, very serious problems. But this bill is not a bill that just helps Americans to be able to afford

hc insurance. Everybody would be fine with that. If you can benefit from it, I'm glad for ya.

Put it's a pyramid scheme. It's so huge and expensive, it can't be paid for. We are already in 16 trillion

or more in debt. And this bill is a part of an economic "perfect storm" toward going into hyperinflation.

This thread was never about you, and none of my posts was intended to slur you at all. Get over yourself.

@calfoxwc said:

Our health care system in the finest in the world. People from all over the world come here for care.

Doctors from the US go all over the world.

If our health care system is so bad, dumbass, why do you want to pay any money

at all to take part in it?

shove your antagonism. You aren't making any sense. Were you able to sign up for it yet, dumbass? NO.

Another disaster. Another broken promise. I hope you can benefit from it, Cysko. but utopia

isn't all it's cracked up to be by this corrupt marxist pig regime. Obamaocare is a pyramid scheme.

In the long run, it can't possibly be afforded. Look at our national debt. Look at all the trouble it is

already causing those who DO have med insurance. I have outstanding health insurance for 600 a month.

And no, our health care system is irrevocably broken. We've allowed private companies to run rampant on us. It's like being raped so often that certain people start to believe when the rapist says he loves you.

People the world over cons for our doctors not our insurance. Get a clue. Countries all over the world including our next door neighbor are able to afford it.

**************************************************

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of the damage this Obamao fiasco care will do.

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Doctors from the US go all over the world.

If our health care system is so bad, dumbass, why do you want to pay any money

at all to take part in it?

shove your antagonism. You aren't making any sense. Were you able to sign up for it yet, dumbass? NO.

Another disaster. Another broken promise. I hope you can benefit from it, Cysko. but utopia

isn't all it's cracked up to be by this corrupt marxist pig regime. Obamaocare is a pyramid scheme.

In the long run, it can't possibly be afforded. Look at our national debt. Look at all the trouble it is

already causing those who DO have med insurance. I have outstanding health insurance for 600 a month.

is that gone now?

Are you guys fucking delusional? The health care system. SUCKS as is.

I theenk you want to look at theese...

(Obamaocare premiums sticker shock )

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/03/Obamacare-Facebook-Erupts-With-Citizen-Sticker-Shock

to review -

2009 - Senate sets budget through TARP at $862 billion - as a one time emergency stimulus...?

the democratic house / senate rams through the HCA behind closed doors and obamacare is born.

2010 a weary and distrustful constituency has a voice and says so in the sweeping house changeover.

the senate goes on year by year not passing a budget, and with obamas blessing keeps the "one time TARP" expenditure alive! ($862 billion borrowed every year)

so this administration and senate are drunk with its own wreckless actions in spending... wall street salivates...

2012 elections prove that there are way more people in denial, (the free shit agenda)

and when reality hit people in the face, that its time to stop spending - they become angry drunks!

and fall back on the proven credo - blame someone! this time the house republicans -specifically the vocal ones

so you want to increase the debt ceiling? the drunks and deniers see no other alternative and wont negotiate!

God help us.....

of course they do try and keep a little ideological veneer on each of the parties ie Democrats giving things to the poor Republicans preaching self-sufficiency...

But I'm not talking about competition among the insurance companies. I'm talking about in general competition and market driven system doctors paid directly for their services and not being forced to send in a bill for thousands of dollars with the knowledge that they are only going to receive hundreds of that. Also every time the government subsidized is anything the prices go through the roof. Look at college tuition.

WSS

@calfoxwc said:

HHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

Holy shit

I can't take the irony

For goodness sakes, the Obamao regime and plenty of dems admit it will cause millions to LOSE their insurance.

How in the hell in that good for competition?

If it's about "competition", why not have a superior program that people will want ? Instead of forcing other

companies to comply with all sorts of interference, fines, etc etc etc, for not complying?

And hell yes, it's about forcing coverage of abortions, and more. And, it's about enforcement by the corrupt IRS,

invading every American's private medical business.

And more. Asking who owns guns, blah blah.

I call bs.

What? Where does all this nonsense come from? Oh yeah, Obamao's regime, and places like moveonupObamao'sleg.com......

As for how it can increase market competition, it is basic open-market mechanics. The bill introduces a new customer base into the insurance system who yes, will GENERALLY be looking for the cheapest insurance available. Therefore, the companies will compete to provide the cheapest insurance available until nobody can go any lower. It'll then come down to carving out niches in the market. Some will perhaps provide better vision care, which will appeal to people who wear glasses, others perhaps lower visit co-pays but higher drug co-pays, others perhaps vice-versa. Still others may have higher on both but cheaper hospital stay co-pays. It will come down to individuals picking the plan that best suits there need within their budget.

Either way, the competition will be good for the country.

I also don't like everyone in America getting free stuff. It makes us all dependent and makes the politicians royalty.

Conversely I like being able to invest my money in insurance based financial products.

But I don't see competition between Democrats and Republicans hinging upon who can give more free stuff to different constituencies in order to keep political power a good and positive thing. If the citizens aren't beholding to the politicians the politicians have less power.

I realize there's no definitive answer so I'm probably about as clear as mud. But its political of course. You remember Obama denouncing Hillarys plan which included the public mandate?

WSS

@westside-steve said:

I think you misunderstood me, the Republicans want the medical device tax taken out of Obamacare, and I'm saying the Dems should give them what they want on that. Aside from that, I'm not sure what else the Republican congress dislikes about Obamacare. When you poll the Republican electorate on the individual aspects of Obamacare, they support it. So please tell me (and I'm asking seriously), what is it specifically that Republicans don't like about it? If I understood that I could think about what areas could be compromised on.

The only reason I can see that the Republican congress would oppose this, despite popularity with their own constituents, is because the Republican congress is not representing their constituents, but instead a group of the largest insurance companies who do not want to see more market competition (an ideal I thought Republicans favored, as do I).

@osiris said:

They do refuse to compromise, as do the Dems. Personally I think the Dems should throw the Republicans a bone and let them save face (polls show most Americans blame Republicans for this, and perception is everything in politics, whether or not you agree that they are largely at fault) by agreeing to cut the medical device tax. And I agree, I don't think there will be any real catastrophe unless the shutdown is prolonged. People still are getting unpaid, my friend at the CDC for one, who said she will NOT be getting any back-pay either.

You know who shouldn't get paid, but will? Congress. Their salaries ought to be withheld until they pass a budget.

Of course withholding congressional pay is nothing but window dressing as is with holding the pay of any federal employee. Sooner or later they will get it all back. But if that is your compromise, throwing a bone in the shape of the medical device tax, it's not much of a compromise. It is the Democrats getting what they want. Do you think that there should be any real compromise? If so what would you do in a meaningful way?

WSS

And yes, the media does, and always will, sensationalize everything.