@flyingfooldoug said:

And if memory serves me right, using a first round pick on a kicker started a whole lot of shit in that draft and he took heavy criticism for that pick.

And, Banner is a genius. I only say that b/c he hired a guy in Lombardi who he knew CLE fans would scapegoat if the personnel decisions stunk, when the reality is Banner is making all the decisions. Sure, he gets some of Lombardi's opinions on players, which were always pretty good if you followed him at NFL network, but doesn't let him make the decisions.

Either way, this regime deserves at least 5 years together to get it done. NO MATTER WHAT. Haslam, AND THE FANS, have to understand that we cannot turn over the FO and coaching staff as much as we have in the past 14 years. So far, I have no complaints... let's see what happens moving forward

@miktoxic said:

This. Don't think they need to trade up to get a good QB next year (No Andrew Luck coming out). I would be happy using our 1st or the Colts 1st, but using both would make me go apeshit as well.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

You can add Jordan Cameron, Buster Skrine, Jason Pinkston, John Hughs, Billy Winn and Craig Robertson to that list as well.

I will say this as bad as

@ballpeen said:

we'll all see how solid it is next april.

Zombo said:

Nice recap.

I think some people aren't looking at what is happening. So far, every move we have made is solid.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

great post. learned a lot.

@shep said:

Lombardi has never had full authority. He actually wasn't even WITH the Raiders when they picked J-Fat, for example... and everybody knows who made the picks in that town (rhymes with Schmal Scmavis).

Lombardi's "current" resume comes from his time with Banner, which obviously went very well, at least in Banner's opinion... his association with Belicheck, which is obviously a fantastic endorsement... his media career... and now. And it's the last one that matters most to me.

Do I think Lombardi understands the current league more than Tom Heckert? Heckert traded up to draft a running back at #3, so in my mind, my mother wins over Heckert. So that's a gimme. Then add in that Heckert was part of signing Delhomme and drafting McCoy (although rumored to be against it), it wasn't a very good personnel run.

The two offsesons that define Heckert most for me were trading a Pro Bowl #1 WR in Julio Jones for what is turning out to be a very good nose tackle (nobody makes that trade)... and of course the Richardson-Weeden first round that Lombardi hated so, SO badly. It's pretty clear, by guess and insider insinuation, that this regime would've taken Tannehill at #4 and the either a WR or Doug Martin at 22 or whatever that pick was.

The advantage goes to Lombardi and Banner obviously. Then they were able to trade bad draft 4s and 5s for good draft 4s and 3s. That's smart football. Then they got a first round draft pick not only for a RUNNING BACK... but one averaging 3.5 YPC for his 19 game, two-team career. He doesn't look special at all to me so for now, in my mind anyway, we fleeced the Colts. You can get a hard-running, one-cut back to get you 4.2 or more 20 times a game in rounds 3, 4, 5, hell... after the draft. And that sets up the pass just fine... and then it comes down to whether you do or don't have one of the best 12 QBs in the NFL.

Lombanner brought in Des Bryant, Mingo, and Kruger to transform our front 7 into "one of the best in the league," as the announcers said last week. They stuck by Craig Robertson as a starter, which was smart. They brought in Hoyer and Bess, both looking really shrewd. And they added a 1, a 3, and a 4 for the next draft plus played smart moneyball to put us in strong cap position to not only draft a Bridgewater but also sign a serious WR, Ben Tate, and another lineman to go with him.

They've done fantastic work so far. Also love the coaching choices. Plus, they sat Weeden.

He may have a 50/50 shot with top talent, but he stocked this team with solid starters in the middle rounds which paved the way for Banner and Co. to be able to go for broke on the first rounders.

Imagine adding a QB or WR to TE talent pool we had in 2008. Half of our guys were over the hill and the other half were practice squad rejects.

Of the 8 OL on the final roster that year, only one is still in the league, and that's Joe Thomas. Even Steiny was on the tail end of his career.

We had the top tier WR corps of Syndric Steptoe, Paul Hubbard, Josh Cribbs and Donte Stallworth behind our #1 Braylon. All of them, except Braylon, are out of the league.

Our TE's were Brad Cieslak, Darnell Dinkins, and John Madsen. K2 was out with staph. All out of the league.

Our LB corps consisted of Andra Davis, Titus Brown, Alex Hall, Willie McGinest, Leon Williams, DQJ and Kam Wimbley. All but two are out of the league. One was traded by Heckert for a third round pick, which was later used on Colt McCoy (regrettably), which most can agree has been our best starting QB since DA's fluke season. The other is our centerpiece LB.

Our defensive backfield consisted of Hamza Abdullah, Mike Adams, Sean Jones, Eric Wright, Brandon McDonald, Terry Cousin, and Travis Daniels. At least there's 3 of them still in the league.

Our DL also featured 3 players that still start in this league in Shaun Rogers, Ahtyba Rubin and Corey Williams. The rest? Gone, baby, gone.

The IR was a who's who of retired mediocre players. Players like Ken Dorsey, Robaire Smith, Antwaan Peek, Steve Heiden and Joe J.

Heckert may not have been some whiz kid GM who stocked our roster with a plethora of future HOF players but he turned an aging, unwatchable abortion of a team into a solid corps of young talent.

He wasn't what we wanted at the time but he was what we needed- a guy who understood that winning takes time and made picks that set us up for the future, but ultimately cost him his job.

Just a quick count, but that's 11 people of 41 still active. I'm sure there are a couple more, but there can't be any more than 15 members of our 52 man roster that still start today, 5 years later.

And the best two of the remaining starters are still in Cleveland.

Also not sure about your Tannehill theory. He was a mega-ballsy pick at #8... at #4 it'd been off the charts balsy.

But I do agree that all the moves to date looks promising, if not already solid. Plus, as others have pointed out elsewhere, a whole room full of people will have input into our selection process.

Lombardi's "current" resume comes from his time with Banner, which obviously went very well, at least in Banner's opinion... his association with Belicheck, which is obviously a fantastic endorsement... his media career... and now. And it's the last one that matters most to me.

Do I think Lombardi understands the current league more than Tom Heckert? Heckert traded up to draft a running back at #3, so in my mind, my mother wins over Heckert. So that's a gimme. Then add in that Heckert was part of signing Delhomme and drafting McCoy (although rumored to be against it), it wasn't a very good personnel run.

The two offsesons that define Heckert most for me were trading a Pro Bowl #1 WR in Julio Jones for what is turning out to be a very good nose tackle (nobody makes that trade)... and of course the Richardson-Weeden first round that Lombardi hated so, SO badly. It's pretty clear, by guess and insider insinuation, that this regime would've taken Tannehill at #4 and the either a WR or Doug Martin at 22 or whatever that pick was.

The advantage goes to Lombardi and Banner obviously. Then they were able to trade bad draft 4s and 5s for good draft 4s and 3s. That's smart football. Then they got a first round draft pick not only for a RUNNING BACK... but one averaging 3.5 YPC for his 19 game, two-team career. He doesn't look special at all to me so for now, in my mind anyway, we fleeced the Colts. You can get a hard-running, one-cut back to get you 4.2 or more 20 times a game in rounds 3, 4, 5, hell... after the draft. And that sets up the pass just fine... and then it comes down to whether you do or don't have one of the best 12 QBs in the NFL.

Lombanner brought in Des Bryant, Mingo, and Kruger to transform our front 7 into "one of the best in the league," as the announcers said last week. They stuck by Craig Robertson as a starter, which was smart. They brought in Hoyer and Bess, both looking really shrewd. And they added a 1, a 3, and a 4 for the next draft plus played smart moneyball to put us in strong cap position to not only draft a Bridgewater but also sign a serious WR, Ben Tate, and another lineman to go with him.

They've done fantastic work so far. Also love the coaching choices. Plus, they sat Weeden.

@the-gipper said:

LOL...and if they make mistakes will they be "Grand"

@the-gipper said:

LMAO!

Zombo said:

Good post. You have actually swayed my thinking some. The points are valid that the decisions thus far have been very good. I will stay positive unless they trade Gordon. If they do I will likely go off the deep end lol

@the-gipper said:

And if memory serves me right, using a first round pick on a kicker started a whole lot of shit in that draft and he took heavy criticism for that pick.

@flyingfooldoug said:

He started making his first mistakes in 1992. Now it is 21 years later.

His mistakes are now old enough to drink.

@jrb12711 said:

of course not. but luck was a virtual lock.

do you see one in next year's draft? cuz i sure don't.

@jrb12711 said:

I think the point is our luck at first round QB's sucks. Rolling a bunch of picks into a bust would set us back many years. If it pans out of course I and most of us would climb on the band wagon.

XxDaBuckeyexX said:

I hope he can use his mistakes as a learning experience. If so, we should have a stellar draft.

XxDaBuckeyexX said:

I count 70 players on that list.....and the best choice he ever made was a kicker.....Janikowski. Plus a few solid pros. Asomghua for a bit, and Huff some.

But truly his success rate is about 10%....unless I am missing something. Particularly his Browns years. (first stint)

@miktoxic said:

So you'd honestly be upset if they packaged two first round picks and got a franchise QB at the level of say an Andrew Luck? I'm not saying Bridgewater or the like fit that bill but I wouldn't complain if it played out like that. There's a good reason teams go worst to first after they draft a QB. Of course it'd be awful if the guy ended up being a bust but it's a shot worth taking depending on the situation.