@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I thought that "concussion" rather odd too, TC. Probably the coaching staff knew Wee-Done was going to get reamed by the local media and saved him the embarrassment. Your previous assessment of the final drive is spot on- they were killing us on short quick outs away from Haden. Something Horton needs to seriously address- that and those marginal flanker screens the Squealers used quite effectively- which I consider borderline offensive pass interference.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Weeden doesn't know tight ends exist. It's no fault of Cameron.

He's open on a lot of plays but, by that time, Weeden has taken his eyes off of anyone other than the dump off valve, and then he tries his patented backhand flip.

You saying he can't see the field and make quick decisions? ROTFL. One play particularly galled me. He had Cameron open in the right flat by 10 yards early, then hung onto the ball until Cameron was double covered, and had to make a great play warding off defenders for the pass.

Without Gordon bailing Weedster out with amazing plays (the 40 yard jump ball, & maybe 5 other wrs in the league that could have pulled off that 95 yarder) the Browns not only lose, they get blown out due to Wee-done's suckage.

@gftchris said:

I agree, I'm not saying the D is crap, cut 11 players now, but that not stopping that drive is on them, and we were in a position to win the game if they had. We can move on, and I'm confident that in the same situation they'll stop it next time, because they're a good unit.

The O on the other hand...well, at least our other receivers totalled over 100 yards this week. On the one hand, I don't like being quite so reliant on Flash, but on the other hand he's that damn good at the moment that he's going to be the favourite target of every QB that plays with him. But on the other hand (yes that's three) I can't wait to see him when there's a proper QB throwing him the ball, and another legitimate receiving threat that can take some coverage away from him - Jordan Cameron is supposed to be that guy, but he's been quite unproductive of late.

Weeden doesn't know tight ends exist. It's no fault of Cameron.

He's open on a lot of plays but, by that time, Weeden has taken his eyes off of anyone other than the dump off valve, and then he tries his patented backhand flip.

@the-gipper said:

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

In the second quarter, Weeden gets intercepted on the 17 yard line. Jacksonville takes 2:00, gets a TD.

17 yards, 7 Pts.

On the next drive, Weeden throws another INT from the 20. Our defense holds them to a field goal.

2 yards, 3 Pts.

On the next drive, Weeden fumbles the ball, again on our side of the field. They get the ball on the 18 and kick a field goal.

0 yards, 3 Pts.

All of these, no doubt

In the fourth quarter, Weeden kicks the ball out of Whittaker's hands for the safety.

0 yards, 2 Pts.

I am of the opinion that this is mainly on Alex Mack's head

We then are forced to punt the ball to midfield, Jacksonville returns it to the 43 and goes 35 yards for the field goal.

35 yards, 3 Pts.

Again, perhaps on Mack, perhaps on defense for not stopping the Jags. At most I give Weeden 1/3rd blame on this.

Because of Weeden, the Jags scored 18 points and only had to go 54 total yards to do it.

If you want to bitch because our defense gave up a scoring drive at the end of the game, you damn sure better recognize that Jacksonville was given the ball within scoring range on four separate occasions, and they only managed to get one TD out of it.

No matter how you want to look at it, Weeden once again lost us that game.

He sure as hell didn't put us in a position to win. Gordon did, and was the only one.

So? Gordon threw the ball and caught it as well? I didn't see that part of those plays.

Without Gordon on the field, Weeden was useless and our offense stalled. Even on the big plays to Gordon, Weeden just threw up a jump ball and let them battle it out. I implore you to go back and find one throw to Gordon that didn't involve Gordon adjusting and beating the corner for the ball or Gordon breaking tackles to make a play.

Gordon played great, no doubt.

So, sure....give the credit to Gordon........and if you want it that way then understand then that it was Gordon whom the defense let down then when they could not stop the Jags on that last drive.

Weeden kicked the ball out of Whittaker's hands when the closest Jag player was 10 yards away. Watch the replay.

You can give as much blame to whoever you want, so can I. Neither of which matters, because we're not the coaches. But it seems awfully funny that Weeden suddenly developed a "concussion". I think it was more of "you're done, but we'll save whatever value there is to you and say you're hurt rather than bench you. This way we can trade you for a set of Walmart golf clubs and a chewed Ricola."

Coaches factor in the ensuing drive on safeties. It's common knowledge. You can look it up if you'd like.

Once again, the defense was given a short field and held them to a field goal.

When the offense gets the ball already in scoring position, it's kind of hard to force a punt.

The O on the other hand...well, at least our other receivers totalled over 100 yards this week. On the one hand, I don't like being quite so reliant on Flash, but on the other hand he's that damn good at the moment that he's going to be the favourite target of every QB that plays with him. But on the other hand (yes that's three) I can't wait to see him when there's a proper QB throwing him the ball, and another legitimate receiving threat that can take some coverage away from him - Jordan Cameron is supposed to be that guy, but he's been quite unproductive of late.

@gftchris said:

TCPO, Weeden did his standard Weeden and gave up a load of turnovers and points for free. That pisses everyone off. The D played ok, did well to hold them to field goals for the most part, and I'm pleased with how the D is looking. The D had a chance to win the game for us, by making one more stop, and couldn't. It's bad, but it's not the end of the world, like people have been saying, they did will on, I don't know, 6 out of 8 possessions, and it just happens that one of the ones they didn't is the game winner. That sucks. Hopefully, when they have the opportunity in the future they'll come up big for us.

I understand that it's frustrating that the defense gave up the TD at the end of the game, but that isn't an indictment.

Jacksonville orchestrated a technically solid drive and hit us where it hurt, our pass coverage. We'd send five, they threw a hitch. When that hitch got stopped, the lined up and threw one to the opposite side of the field.

They got the ball out fast and that beats a pass rush any day of the week. We're not at the point where we have two man-lock corners that can be placed on an island. Haden is very good, one of the best corners in the AFC, but he can't match up step-for-step with #1's every play. His game is different, he plays with a cushion and has a great first step to undercut short routes.

Jacksonville hit those short routes repeatedly, away from Haden, and then when they went to Haden, he bit and they took advantage of it. There should have been safety help over the top. The down, distance and scenario dictated a cover 2, I don't see why we wouldn't have been in one.

Take away that last TD play and Shorts has 40 yards on 5 catches. It's crazy that one play would make the difference between "Haden is a god" and "Haden is godawful", but that's the way Cleveland fans react.

There's a reason Ace Sanders was their go to threat in this game after only recording 250 yards all season. They found a mismatch and exploited it.

Kudos to them.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Wow TCPO nice job on YOUR math. LOL how did one get so dumb? Crack baby? Good try at the math kid...keep at it you will get it some day, I hope

@the-gipper said:

Yes, Weeden's turnovers were A problem........but he had overcome that problem. He and Gordon put the Browns in a position to win. Four minutes to go with a 3 pt. lead. and this vaunted defense merely had to hold that bad team to win this game....but they didn't. They could have stopped them. They didn't. They could have held them to a FG. They didn't. They didn't perform in crunch time to win a game. That's a fact.

Without the earlier TOs would they have been put in the position to have to stop the opponent from conducting a game winning drive? Possibly not. But when they were dealt the hand they were dealt, they folded.

Beyond that, yes, the offense gave up TOs that led to 13 pts.......but the Jags scored 32, which means the defense gave up long drives that led to 19 points. Not as good a showing as it should have been.

Yes, this team has lost 3 games in a row due to TOs. Weeden was responsible for his share.....but Campbell also threw for 3 Ints.,

Oby fumbled twice, and don't forget the blocked punts, and of course the fiasco that led to that safety that was not Weeden's fault.

I am not really defending Weeden.....I am only stating facts........Others were equally responsible for the TO situation these last 3 games as he was.

I mean, the whole ineptitude is epidemic.....not quarantined to just one person.

In the second quarter, Weeden gets intercepted on the 17 yard line. Jacksonville takes 2:00, gets a TD.

17 yards, 7 Pts.

On the next drive, Weeden throws another INT from the 20. Our defense holds them to a field goal.

2 yards, 3 Pts.

On the next drive, Weeden fumbles the ball, again on our side of the field. They get the ball on the 18 and kick a field goal.

0 yards, 3 Pts.

In the fourth quarter, Weeden kicks the ball out of Whittaker's hands for the safety.

0 yards, 2 Pts.

We then are forced to punt the ball to midfield, Jacksonville returns it to the 43 and goes 35 yards for the field goal.

35 yards, 3 Pts.

Because of Weeden, the Jags scored 18 points and only had to go 54 total yards to do it.

If you want to bitch because our defense gave up a scoring drive at the end of the game, you damn sure better recognize that Jacksonville was given the ball within scoring range on four separate occasions, and they only managed to get one TD out of it.

No matter how you want to look at it, Weeden once again lost us that game.

He sure as hell didn't put us in a position to win. Gordon did, and was the only one. Without Gordon on the field, Weeden was useless and our offense stalled. Even on the big plays to Gordon, Weeden just threw up a jump ball and let them battle it out. I implore you to go back and find one throw to Gordon that didn't involve Gordon adjusting and beating the corner for the ball or Gordon breaking tackles to make a play.

Though, I don't know that the offense has ever been disheartened from the gitgo,

like fans and the defense surely have been, by the offense's ineptitude.

There have been wins by this defense, only to have the offense totally blow it.

And yeah, what the heck about that bad snap? Of all places on the field?

Egad.

The defense didn't have their best day... With the quick turnovers,

it puts the defense on the field far more. It's making life really rough

for the defense, being behind the 8-ball, because of the turnovers.

The defense needed some help from the offense, and got the opposite again.

Without the turnovers, yeah, I would say the defense lost the game.

Even Ward was speaking out about it, so... I think the defense was pressing way too much,

with the game on their shoulders, and guys like Haden tried to make a huge play, and

got stuck getting beat instead. I don't blame him for being imperfect. But Weeden thinks

it's a "laugh" when he throws ints and fumbles the ball away. Freakin Weeden is now

a loser in my book.

@calfoxwc said:

Yes, Weeden's turnovers were A problem........but he had overcome that problem. He and Gordon put the Browns in a position to win. Four minutes to go with a 3 pt. lead. and this vaunted defense merely had to hold that bad team to win this game....but they didn't. They could have stopped them. They didn't. They could have held them to a FG. They didn't. They didn't perform in crunch time to win a game. That's a fact.

Without the earlier TOs would they have been put in the position to have to stop the opponent from conducting a game winning drive? Possibly not. But when they were dealt the hand they were dealt, they folded.

Beyond that, yes, the offense gave up TOs that led to 13 pts.......but the Jags scored 32, which means the defense gave up long drives that led to 19 points. Not as good a showing as it should have been.

Yes, this team has lost 3 games in a row due to TOs. Weeden was responsible for his share.....but Campbell also threw for 3 Ints.,

Oby fumbled twice, and don't forget the blocked punts, and of course the fiasco that led to that safety that was not Weeden's fault.

I am not really defending Weeden.....I am only stating facts........Others were equally responsible for the TO situation these last 3 games as he was.

I mean, the whole ineptitude is epidemic.....not quarantined to just one person.

************************

Our defense is terrific. No defense is perfect. Weedone's three turnovers are the problem.

And the Jags aren't without a good bit of talent.

and fire. He doesn't give a crap.

Last I saw, even "game manager" McCarron showed serious fire to me.

A hypothermic eskimo would have played qb more fiery than Weedone did the last

couple of games.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

The point being made is that even though we would have won with literally any other QB as starter in that game, our much vaunted D should have been able to get a stop somewhere in the 80-yard drive the jaguars put up.

@richiswhere said:

Your a fucking moron. The Offense gave the D the lead with less than 4 minutes and you let the worst offense in the NFL go through you like a hot knife through butter.

The offense also gave the Jags the ball 4 times.

4 touchdowns for 28 points, 4 turnovers (all by Weeden) for 28 points, not including the safety.

Do the math, dickweed.

Our defense is the least of our worries. With literally any other QB in, we win this game.

@hoorta said:

i think little could be a legit #2 if we had a decent QB and a running game to open things up.

haven't had either in years.

@nickers said:

What concerns me about Horton's D- is what happened to the getting to the quarterback? We had a ton of sacks earlier in the year, are we telegraphing our blitzes?

Regarding Wee-Done, he should have been cut yesterday. His occasional nice plays hardly make up for the 2-3 game killing boneheaded ones.

But regarding Little- he made a terrific catch for that TD on an (as usual) misguided Weeden missile. The ball was behind him.

@darubes said:

This is it..Amen brother...Ray Horton comes across as a carpet bagger much like Rob Ryan without the obnoxious schtick. His defense today in My view is a big part of why we ultimately lost...every good DB has a bad game and Haden had 2 in a row..Still a very good corner but not in the Dixon/Minnifield class yet...While Wheezy gave the ball away...He also played a decent 2nd half..This falls squarelly on Wheezy and our overrated defense..We let a crap team bully us at the end. Weeden and Greg Little should be cut like NOW!

Yep....it's Joe's fault......LOL

Take a hike dude.

@bob806 said:

PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN! PRO BOWL FOR HADEN!

Puke yet?? Seriously for those of you on the Haden sucks bandwagon today you should punch yourselves in the face a few times for being DUMBASSES.

about the defense. We rank here in yards allowed, we rank here in rushing defense,blah ,blah,

blah.All I know is as previous posters have noted Chad Henne CHAD HENNE took the worst

offense in the league 80 yards on your vaunted defense when it counted to win a game on

YOUR HOME FIELD. Your defense Mr Horton is 31st in red zone scoring defense. Your

defense is average at best. Weeden stinks to high heaven but he wasn't on the field when

the worst offense in the league shoved it down your throat when it counted.

@browns149 said:

I'm done arguing with you- your talent evaluation ranks right up there with PGs. Operative word there is were with the exception of Reevis. You're using "greatest of all time" as your measuring stick. Yeah- Joe isn't there yet.

Guess TJ Ward sucks too, because he doesn't play like Ronnie Lott.