<![CDATA[Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read]]>Better days ahead for the Browns? All the analytics trend up

Dec 11, 2013 -- 6:00am

By Tony Grossi | ESPNCleveland.com

Campbell-and-Chud-AP.jpg

Photo/AP

Updated at 7:33 a.m.

The Morning Kickoff …

Groundhog Year: The Browns are 4-9. Last year through 13 games they were 5-8. The year before, 4-9. Before that, 5-8. And before that, 5-8.

What about the year before that, 2008? 4-9.

Rob Chudzinski is the head coach now. He was the offensive coordinator in 2008.

“I see the light,” Chudzinski said on Monday.

I do, too. But first, an update on the NFL coaching hires in 2013.

1. Andy Reid, Kansas City Chiefs, 10-3.

2. Chip Kelly, Philadelphia Eagles, 8-5.

Bruce Arians, Arizona Cardinals, 8-5.

4. Marc Trestman, Chicago Bears, 7-6.

5. Mike McCoy, San Diego Chargers, 6-7.

6. Rob Chudzinski, Browns, 4-9.

Gus Bradley, Jacksonville Jaguars, 4-9.

Doug Marrone, Buffalo Bills, 4-9.

Reid, Arians and McCoy have enjoyed the same starting quarterback for every game. Kelly, Trestman and Bradley have had two. Marrone and Chudzinski have had three.

Down and up and down: This Browns season has been a unique 4-9 season, if that’s possible.

Here is what I have felt at various points in the season …

Games 1 and 2, Miami and Baltimore, 0-2, Brandon Weeden at quarterback: Are you kidding me?

Games 3, 4 and 5; Minnesota, Cincinnati and Buffalo; 3-0; Brian Hoyer at quarterback: Wow, they can win with him.

Games 6 and 7, Detroit and Green Bay, 0-2, Weeden at quarterback: Ok, I’ve seen enough.

Games 8, 9, 10, 11; Kansas City, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh; 1-3; Jason Campbell at quarterback: Nice. Wait. Defense?

Game 12, Jacksonville, 0-1, Weeden at quarterback: Please stop.

Game 13, New England, 0-1, Campbell at quarterback: What just happened?

Where is the light?: First, a question: Does anybody believe the Browns would be 4-9 if Hoyer or Campbell hadn’t been injured? Of course not. I don’t mean to pile on Weeden, but the one-year anniversary of his last win as a starting quarterback passed on Monday.

So this particular 4-9 season, I believe, can be mostly attributed to the freakish, only-in-Cleveland, rash of bad luck at the quarterback position (Hoyer’s torn ACL, Campbell’s sore ribs and concussion). Because I feel there were two defined periods in which it was proved that the Browns could win right now with solid play at quarterback – Hoyer vs. Minnesota and Cincinnati, and Campbell vs. Kansas City, Baltimore and New England. (Yes, they lost the Kansas City and New England games, proving that defense and special teams can sabotage good quarterback play.)

That said, here are other reasons why I think this 4-9 Browns teams is trending up rather than down:

1. Josh Gordon: Megatron gives way to Gigatron.

When he was 21 years old, I stated Gordon was potentially the best player on the team. When he was 22, he proved it. What happens at 23, 25 … 28? What happens with a consistent starter at quarterback? What happens with a franchise quarterback delivering Gordon the ball? Of course, Gordon has to stay free from another drug violation for him to fulfill his unlimited potential.

I loved the comment from Chudzinski about Gordon: “His best days, like our best days, are ahead of us and him.”

2. The running game: They’ve got to figure it out, right?

The Browns’ front office will receive repeated kudos right through the draft in May for the trade of running back Trent Richardson. But the fact is it did a lame job of replacing Richardson with a competent running back, which is why the trade reeked all year long of “waiting for next year.” The personnel department also avoided the fullback position like a plague. We can only hope that these egregious errors will be corrected in the offseason.

3. The defense: 2xy + 3 (xyz) = something better.

Coordinator Ray Horton speaks the language of the front office. They all crunch numbers like the rest of us crunch pretzels. I have been convinced every Thursday when Horton speaks to media that the Browns have the best defense in the NFL. He has the numbers to show it. Then on Sunday I am certain they do not. Ultimately, we should understand that this is the first year of a new defensive system and the unit is loaded with young players. Thus, the future has to be better than the present. I am sure there are numbers to prove that.

4. The draft: It can’t get any worse, can it? Don’t answer that.

The Browns own all their picks in the seven rounds plus extra picks in Round 1 (Colts), Round 3 (Steelers) and Round 4 (Colts). The first draft of the Joe Banner-Mike Lombardi-Ray Farmer regime was underwhelming at best and awful at worst. They have to do better in 2014. No?

5. The salary cap: Clear sailing.

Unlike most teams, the Browns have gobs of salary cap room and no cumbersome contracts to impede their efforts to build a winning team.

When you add it all up and think about it, there is no excuse for the Browns not to win in 2014.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/topic/27510/is-there-hope-interesting-grossi-readRSS for NodeFri, 02 Oct 2026 13:13:41 GMTWed, 11 Dec 2013 15:07:52 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:46:49 GMT]]>

@footbalfan1962 said:

Problem is ....browns in division with two perennial winners....both were sort of down this year and Browns will still finish last. I don't know what the answer is.

The Browns need to get better and instead of finding new, creative ways to lose, they find new creative ways to win.

I do not think that any of those teams are much, if at all, superior talentwise to the Browns...except at QB...and not that much there even.

The Browns just know how to lose better than any other team around.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/372913https://brownsboard.com/post/372913Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:46:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Tue, 17 Dec 2013 12:56:54 GMT]]>Problem is ....browns in division with two perennial winners....both were sort of down this year and Browns will still finish last. I don't know what the answer is.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/372834https://brownsboard.com/post/372834Tue, 17 Dec 2013 12:56:54 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Sun, 15 Dec 2013 17:43:00 GMT]]>Not a single point in Grossi's article that has not been made here.

Maybe he lurks here...

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/372400https://brownsboard.com/post/372400Sun, 15 Dec 2013 17:43:00 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Sat, 14 Dec 2013 05:49:13 GMT]]>

Zombo said:

What?

Campbell 3 INT and 2 fumbles

Weeden 9 INT and 6 fumbles

Both started five games ... are we talking about a particular football game?

Cambell played both the Cinncy and Pittsburgh games with bad ribs, btw. But I'll take him with bad ribs over a healthy weeds.

Zombo

Ya beat me to it Z- Campbell is at least serviceable as a spot starter- Weenden belongs in the Arena League, or the CFL.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/372278https://brownsboard.com/post/372278Sat, 14 Dec 2013 05:49:13 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Thu, 12 Dec 2013 18:06:07 GMT]]>

Zombo said:

What?

Campbell 3 INT and 2 fumbles

Weeden 9 INT and 6 fumbles

Both started five games ... are we talking about a particular football game?

Cambell played both the Cinncy and Pittsburgh games with bad ribs, btw. But I'll take him with bad ribs over a healthy weeds.

Zombo

I guess I was thinking of the stretch from Cinci/Pitt/Jax

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371933https://brownsboard.com/post/371933Thu, 12 Dec 2013 18:06:07 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Thu, 12 Dec 2013 15:02:43 GMT]]>

@the-gipper said:

OK, yet, Jason Campbell is responsible for more TOs than Weeden is.

What?

Campbell 3 INT and 2 fumbles

Weeden 9 INT and 6 fumbles

Both started five games ... are we talking about a particular football game?

Cambell played both the Cinncy and Pittsburgh games with bad ribs, btw. But I'll take him with bad ribs over a healthy weeds.

Zombo

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371820https://brownsboard.com/post/371820Thu, 12 Dec 2013 15:02:43 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Thu, 12 Dec 2013 14:53:55 GMT]]>

@hoorta said:

His record as a starter this year is o-fer. Winning? He had a few quarters of semi-decent ball against the Bills, if you want to hang your hat on that. The rest has been unmitigated suckage. Don't blame the defense for not pitching a shutout when the turnover machine constantly gives the other team a short field to work with. He's single handedly blown a bunch of games. He's bottom of the barrel of quarterbacks who have played significant snaps- only Pryor and Geno Smith are worse in QBR.

He doesn't pass the eye test by a country mile of what an elite, or even decent qb looks like.

OK, yet, Jason Campbell is responsible for more TOs than Weeden is.

God knows what would have happened had Hoyer not bought the farm.

Right now, Campbell is the right choice.

....but my point is simple: both Weeden and Hoyer would each have gotten a win the last 2 games if the defense/special teams had performed up to par in crunch time.

When push came to shove at the critical part of the game....last minute/winning/losing time.....the defense lost it for us.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371811https://brownsboard.com/post/371811Thu, 12 Dec 2013 14:53:55 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Thu, 12 Dec 2013 13:52:00 GMT]]>

@nickers said:

Grossi is a complete tool...just discount anything the Moron writes/posts.

I think Grossi knows a LOT more than Mary Kay Cabot the beat writer for the Plain Dealer.

MKC of the infamous "I think Colt McCoy will lead the Browns to a Super Bowl win" quote.

They all make stupid remarks but as a writer and knowing the Browns Grossi is light years

ahead of MKC.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371757https://brownsboard.com/post/371757Thu, 12 Dec 2013 13:52:00 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Thu, 12 Dec 2013 08:57:37 GMT]]>

@the-gipper said:

Well, the Browns still scored exactly -0- points with Hoyer in at QB.

All I am saying is that if Weeden is to get his share of the blame for some of his losses....blame he deserves, he should also get credit for the game he was responsible for winning.

His record as a starter this year is o-fer. Winning? He had a few quarters of semi-decent ball against the Bills, if you want to hang your hat on that. The rest has been unmitigated suckage. Don't blame the defense for not pitching a shutout when the turnover machine constantly gives the other team a short field to work with. He's single handedly blown a bunch of games. He's bottom of the barrel of quarterbacks who have played significant snaps- only Pryor and Geno Smith are worse in QBR.

He doesn't pass the eye test by a country mile of what an elite, or even decent qb looks like.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371735https://brownsboard.com/post/371735Thu, 12 Dec 2013 08:57:37 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Thu, 12 Dec 2013 04:33:21 GMT]]>It's weird when Grossi writes something moderately positive.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371729https://brownsboard.com/post/371729Thu, 12 Dec 2013 04:33:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Thu, 12 Dec 2013 00:44:23 GMT]]>I feel like any competent Browns fan knows this already

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371705https://brownsboard.com/post/371705Thu, 12 Dec 2013 00:44:23 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Wed, 11 Dec 2013 19:56:32 GMT]]>

@bbedward said:

Tj ward and Benjamin helped that game. Weeden did OK, which isn't turning the ball over so much.

Besides hoyer had a beautiful pass on the first drive that was dropped by Gordon, and had the team driving on the 2nd drive before getting hurt.

Well, the Browns still scored exactly -0- points with Hoyer in at QB.

All I am saying is that if Weeden is to get his share of the blame for some of his losses....blame he deserves, he should also get credit for the game he was responsible for winning.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371673https://brownsboard.com/post/371673Wed, 11 Dec 2013 19:56:32 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Wed, 11 Dec 2013 19:54:21 GMT]]>

@browns616 said:

I don't totally disagree with your statement above, but didn't Weeden throw 2 picks that resulted in a short field and easy points for Jax. You can label it anyway you want to look at it... the D choked or Weedens recklessness with the football cost us the game

I said that in additon to Weeden others had a hand in that loss. You cannot deny that. The game is won if the defense performs. Supposedly, prior to that game, if the Browns could put 28 pts. on the board you would expect a win. Yes, Weeden contributed to many of the points scored by the Jags......but he still had them in position to win.......just like Campbell had them in position to win vs. NE.

Sorry....at least 51% of the blame for both those lossed should be put squarely in the shoulders of the defense.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371671https://brownsboard.com/post/371671Wed, 11 Dec 2013 19:54:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Wed, 11 Dec 2013 18:44:22 GMT]]>

@the-gipper said:

Where is the light?: First, a question: Does anybody believe the Browns would be 4-9 if Hoyer or Campbell hadnt been injured? Of course not. I dont mean to pile on Weeden, but the one-year anniversary of his last win as a starting quarterback passed on Monday.

Sorry, but the Browns were behind 7-0 vs. Buffalo when Hoyer was hurt. Weeden played nearly that entire game....and gave a winning effort.

And really, vs. the Jags, Weeden did have them in the lead in crunch time only to see the defense blow it. I mean, they scored 28 points that game, which is about as many as the Browns have scored all year.

So, though it appears that Weeden has been bad....it has not been total suckage. Others have had their hands in the losses that Weeden has been credited with.

Tj ward and Benjamin helped that game. Weeden did OK, which isn't turning the ball over so much.

Besides hoyer had a beautiful pass on the first drive that was dropped by Gordon, and had the team driving on the 2nd drive before getting hurt.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371650https://brownsboard.com/post/371650Wed, 11 Dec 2013 18:44:22 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Wed, 11 Dec 2013 18:38:45 GMT]]>Oh, I disagree, Gip. Weeden has been a loss on two legs, just horrible... and removing Campbell's injury games, Browns did indeed look like an Any Given Sunday kind of team with either Hoyer or Campbell.

And I also disagree that Grossi is a moron.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371648https://brownsboard.com/post/371648Wed, 11 Dec 2013 18:38:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Wed, 11 Dec 2013 18:07:44 GMT]]>Grossi is a complete tool...just discount anything the Moron writes/posts.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371647https://brownsboard.com/post/371647Wed, 11 Dec 2013 18:07:44 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Wed, 11 Dec 2013 17:55:43 GMT]]>

@the-gipper said:

Where is the light?: First, a question: Does anybody believe the Browns would be 4-9 if Hoyer or Campbell hadn’t been injured? Of course not. I don’t mean to pile on Weeden, but the one-year anniversary of his last win as a starting quarterback passed on Monday.

Sorry, but the Browns were behind 7-0 vs. Buffalo when Hoyer was hurt. Weeden played nearly that entire game....and gave a winning effort.

And really, vs. the Jags, Weeden did have them in the lead in crunch time only to see the defense blow it. I mean, they scored 28 points that game, which is about as many as the Browns have scored all year.

So, though it appears that Weeden has been bad....it has not been total suckage. Others have had their hands in the losses that Weeden has been credited with.

I don't totally disagree with your statement above, but didn't Weeden throw 2 picks that resulted in a short field and easy points for Jax. You can label it anyway you want to look at it... the D choked or Weedens recklessness with the football cost us the game

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371644https://brownsboard.com/post/371644Wed, 11 Dec 2013 17:55:43 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Is there hope? Interesting Grossi read on Wed, 11 Dec 2013 15:37:45 GMT]]>Where is the light?: First, a question: Does anybody believe the Browns would be 4-9 if Hoyer or Campbell hadn’t been injured? Of course not. I don’t mean to pile on Weeden, but the one-year anniversary of his last win as a starting quarterback passed on Monday.

Sorry, but the Browns were behind 7-0 vs. Buffalo when Hoyer was hurt. Weeden played nearly that entire game....and gave a winning effort.

And really, vs. the Jags, Weeden did have them in the lead in crunch time only to see the defense blow it. I mean, they scored 28 points that game, which is about as many as the Browns have scored all year.

So, though it appears that Weeden has been bad....it has not been total suckage. Others have had their hands in the losses that Weeden has been credited with.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/371622https://brownsboard.com/post/371622Wed, 11 Dec 2013 15:37:45 GMT