@the-gipper said:

No ties? In an inexact effort like player evaluation... no ties?

I'd be shocked if there was a single NFL board that did not have at least one tie... especially when you get to the second and third days.

@the-gipper said:

You know what a lot of scouts/coaches put faith in: Senior Bowl performance (in practice for that game even more so than the game itself)

XxDaBuckeyexX said:

You know what a lot of scouts/coaches put faith in: Senior Bowl performance (in practice for that game even more so than the game itself)

1. Miami, FL-45

2. LSU-44

T3. Texas, Ohio State-42

5. USC-39 - See more at: http://www.holyturf.com/2011/04/nfl-players-conference-affiliation/#sthash.uhkpItbQ.dpuf

So, 4 of the 5 schools most prolific in providing the NFL with players are not SEC.

Maybe, all things being equal, you may want to look at the school, rather than just the conference.

@the-gipper said:

Once again, in a tie between players, the SEC player gets benefit of the doubt.

Well, here is my point.....I do not believe there can ever be a tie.

So...if you are selecting someone because of conference affiliation....you are giving that person extra bonus evaluation points for being from that conference.

Once again, in a tie between players, the SEC player gets benefit of the doubt.

Well, here is my point.....I do not believe there can ever be a tie.

So...if you are selecting someone because of conference affiliation....you are giving that person extra bonus evaluation points for being from that conference.

@the-gipper said:

Well, I don't think Trent was taken solely because of his conference affiliation. It was probably more to do with the fact that he was a physical freak and seemed to be akin to AP, from a production standpoint as well as a physical standpoint. He could have played for any team, in any conference, and those comparisons to AP would have been made. Richardson, while being a mediocre NFL runningback, is still one of the most physically talented players in the league. He just has no ballcarrier vision and is a higher injury risk. For the record, I was adamantly against Richardson in the draft.

As for your example, Martin and Richardson weren't even close to being graded the same and that had less to do with conference as it did with scheme, so that example is not fitting. People didn't disregard Boise players because of conference (well, they did) as much as they did because of their offensive system. And it's so far worked out, as Martin is really the only Boise State skill player to make an impact. Further, Martin has lucked into a great running team, the Buccaneers have seen solid production from different runningbacks, including our former mediocre player Bobby Rainey.

I am familiar enough with both Shazier and Mosley to make the judgment that Mosley will be a better NFL linebacker, depending on the situation he's placed into. If we were to take both Shazier and Mosley, Mosley would most likely be the stronger player.

Once again, in a tie between players, the SEC player gets benefit of the doubt.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

As my Pro Bowl analysis shows, the SEC may ever so slightly produce a few more defensive players than other leagues.

As for the Mosley/Shazier example....I am not familiar enough with Mosley to know if he may be better. I just know that I would advocate evaluting the player....and not the conference he played in.

I mean, as noted the SEC has produced its share of drek certainly. I mean WTF, it seems that the Browns (and everyone else) evaluation Trent Richardson so high simply because of the team and conference he played in.

So, to me, choosing that guy just because he went to that school/conferece was a major mistake.

I mean, Doug Martin was underevaluated because he went to Boise St.

Yet, who has turned out to be the better player?

@the-gipper said:

I showed you the comparative productivity of those defensive players taken in the first rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts.

It showed that, yes, overall the SEC produced players that had slightly better production in their careers to date.....but it wasn't that overwhelming such that I would ignore a player's competence and just select a "conference".

Example: The Browns need an inside Linebacker. A couple of good ones that might be available for them are CJ Mosley and Ryan Shazier.

It would be as foolish to say, if given the choice that "I am going to take CJ Mosley over Ryan Shazier because he played in the SEC" as it would be for OSU honks to say "take the Ohio State player".

I will want the Browns to take the guy they think is better because he is better, not because he played in the SEC.

And how about this trivia question: How many SEC defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts: Answer: 11

How many Big Ten defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts? Answer: 12.

Now, does that infer that NFL GMs think that Big Ten defensive players are better than SEC defensive players? After all, they chose more.

I don't know what kind of math they teach in England....but in the USA 88 pts divided by 11 SEC equals 8. 77 points divided by 12 Big Ten players equals 6.41.

Right, but you're assuming I said take a guy solely because he's from the SEC, which I did not.

I simply said that, if there's two guys of equal value at the same position, conference would be my tiebreaker.

As for your Shazier/ Mosley example, I would take Mosley in a heartbeat. Mosley is the pass covering ILB we're lacking, he's a multi-year starter from one of the best teams in the nation, and he has the production you like to see.

If it were between Shazier/Johnson, however, I would take Shazier as he's the better player with higher upside.

If it were a wash, and there were two players with similar skill sets, similar production, and similar size, I would take the SEC guy because they've shown they are able to come in and produce right off the bat.

SEC: 11 players

Big Ten: 9 players

Big 12: 9 players*

Pac 12: 5 players

ACC: 5 players

Other: 5 players (smaller conferences/schools including like John Carroll, Troy, Alabama A&M, Idaho)

While the SEC has more defensive players make the Pro Bowl....it is not so significant that it would make me change my tune on a player and pick someone else just because he came from those teams.

*One or two of these players were from Missouri when they played in the Big 12.

@gftchris said:

Yes, the Big 12 had a few quality players, though as noted the one was suspended due to his steroid use....and it is questionable how good he really is given his use of PEDs.

Also note: of the SEC's 88 points, 37.5% of them belong to one player: Patrick Peterson for whom a lot of his points were made because of his quality as a special teams player, not simply as a defender.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I showed you the comparative productivity of those defensive players taken in the first rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts.

It showed that, yes, overall the SEC produced players that had slightly better production in their careers to date.....but it wasn't that overwhelming such that I would ignore a player's competence and just select a "conference".

Example: The Browns need an inside Linebacker. A couple of good ones that might be available for them are CJ Mosley and Ryan Shazier.

It would be as foolish to say, if given the choice that "I am going to take CJ Mosley over Ryan Shazier because he played in the SEC" as it would be for OSU honks to say "take the Ohio State player".

I will want the Browns to take the guy they think is better because he is better, not because he played in the SEC.

And how about this trivia question: How many SEC defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts: Answer: 11

How many Big Ten defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts? Answer: 12.

Now, does that infer that NFL GMs think that Big Ten defensive players are better than SEC defensive players? After all, they chose more.

@gftchris said:

So Gip, what you're saying is, average points per player (assuming it's a relavant indicator)

Big10 ~ 6.5

SEC ~ 15.5

ACC ~ 5.5

I believe you may have disproved yourself.

I don't know what kind of math they teach in England....but in the USA 88 pts divided by 11 SEC equals 8. 77 points divided by 12 Big Ten players equals 6.41.

Big10 ~ 6.5

SEC ~ 15.5

ACC ~ 5.5

I believe you may have disproved yourself.

@the-gipper said:

Yea, OK, you keep Clifford Charlton and Gerard Warren. If I get a Miami guy or a USC guy or an OSU guy....schools that have put more NFL talent on the field than any SEC team.....I will still ignore the conference.

Yeah, sure, list the two busts you dug up and ignore the fact that there's double digit starting defenders from the conference taken in the last two years.

You're wrong. Again. Like you are on most occasions.

Stick to posting trivia questions.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Yea, OK, you keep Clifford Charlton and Gerard Warren. If I get a Miami guy or a USC guy or an OSU guy....schools that have put more NFL talent on the field than any SEC team.....I will still ignore the conference.

@the-gipper said:

You are missing the point.

I am saying that if your turn for a draft pick comes up....and you have a need, say ILB.....and if you have two guys to perhaps choose from......I am not going to pick the SEC guy just because he played in the SEC. If I think the SEC guy is better, I will pick him. If I think the other guys is better I will pick him. I don't give the SEC bonus points for just having played in that conference.

Of course you pick the better prospect. But the tiebreaker is division. The guys I "mocked" were players that would seemingly be available at or around our picks.

Zach Brown 7

Chandler Jones 6

Quinton Coples 3

Luke Kuechly 9

Robert Quinn 9

Ras-I-Dowling 1

Jaball Sheard 17

Bruce Carter 6

Jarvis Jenkins 5

Marquess Gilchrist 4

Da'Qwon Bowers 4

Marvin Austin 1

Brandon Harris 1

Total productivity points: 73

Von Miller 27

Aldon Smith 18

Phil Taylor 12

Aaron Williams 5

Total productivity points: 62 points

Notes: A. These are the only 4 Big 12 defensive players taken out of the Big 12 in the first two rounds of the 2011/2012 drafts.

B. Millers and Smith's teams joined the SEC (Texas A&M and Missouri), but Miller and Smith never played in the SEC.

C. Miller has proven apparently to have been a steroid freak whose productivity has gone way down since being off the juice.

Whitney Mercilus 3

Tavon Wilson 4

Jerel Worthy 3

Devon Still 1

Lavonte David 9

Ryan Kerrigan 14

Corey Liguet 12

Prince Amakamura 5

Adrian Clayborn 6

Cameron Heyward 4

Stefan Wisniewski 5

Jonas Mouton 0

Total productivity points: 77