@hoorta said:

yes we have to find our franchise QB but as you've stated you can't just win anything in this league with one side of the ball your team plays great and the other sucks.

it's all about balance, just like life.

@jrb12711 said:

What I'm saying- even with a franchise qb- there are no guarantees you're even going to be a .500 team. BTW, the '85 Bears had Jim McMahon at qb, hardly a stud. The Redskins won with Doug Williams, and the Ravens with Trent Dilfer. .The Chiefs are winning this year with retread Alex Smith.

Do I think having at least an above average qb isn't important? Hell no. The way the rules are today, you can't repeat the '85 Bears, or '00 Ravens and win with just defense.

@hoorta said:

You didn't really read what I said. I'm not saying you can have a team of scrubs out there, but without a QB you could have the 85 bears defense and it just wouldn't matter. Of the QB's you listed, 4 could be .500 this year. I get it, that's not gonna win the super bowl but that's at least giving a team a chance for the playoffs. The point I'm making here is the browns have to keep going to the well and try and draft a franchise guy. It doesn't matter how many times we've swung and miss, hell look at the Dolphins. They missed about as much as the browns and the second they seem to have gotten it right they easily could make the playoffs. I'm sorry, but to me it is that simple. Draft a true franchise and I'd bet the nicest 12 pack of beer you can think of they start putting in more consistent 8-8 or better seasons. At this point, if the browns had two non-losing seasons I could die a happy man.

merry xmas nicks!

-tim.

@miktoxic said:

butch davis was the best coach we've had since '99 behind mangini.

davis's fault was building his defense up (defensive minded coach) and not protecting the QB with good OL.

mangini had a great but psychotic defense but an offense, besides running hillis behind vickers, sucked badly. he also had too much loyalty to players that he had coached for from other teams and brought them in when they were at the end of their rope.

i'd still put his team on the field against what i've seen since. they played hard and physical for the guy. too bad holmgren (the walrus) couldn't stand the parcells and belichik tree off coaching and had to get rid of him just to replace him with a guy he owed a favor to.

chris palmer had no chance from the start given only so much as a 'new' franchise come draft time. those whiffs he made in the draft remind me of travis hafner with 2 on and 2 out in the ninth.

i could feel the breeze here in NY.

Mangini had an aging defense of crippled has beens...puhleeze..Mangini stunk and his morale was awful...Mangini was like Rac'n'Rolls...El Stupido!

davis's fault was building his defense up (defensive minded coach) and not protecting the QB with good OL.

mangini had a great but psychotic defense but an offense, besides running hillis behind vickers, sucked badly. he also had too much loyalty to players that he had coached for from other teams and brought them in when they were at the end of their rope.

i'd still put his team on the field against what i've seen since. they played hard and physical for the guy. too bad holmgren (the walrus) couldn't stand the parcells and belichik tree off coaching and had to get rid of him just to replace him with a guy he owed a favor to.

chris palmer had no chance from the start given only so much as a 'new' franchise come draft time. those whiffs he made in the draft remind me of travis hafner with 2 on and 2 out in the ninth.

i could feel the breeze here in NY.

@clevfan4life said:

You're freaking high on something. Butch Davis took us to the playoffs. Romeo Crennel sucked, but no worse then Shurmer. Chris Palmer was a sacrifical lamb.

@clevfan4life said:

Pat Shurmur was better than Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel and maybe Chris Palmer even though I don't think he got a fair shake. People forget the Jamir Miller days when we had a very good defense comparable to this one....and Palmer was responsible for building it. In any case, I don't beleive Shurmur was our worst coach. Maybe because I to this day can't stand look at Butch Davis's face...I dunno.

@jrb12711 said:

Yeah- let's just get super lucky, and pull another Brady out of our ass in the sixth round, or "Suck For Luck"- too bad we didn't suck quite bad enough this year, and no "Luck" in the 2014 draft by all accounts. We've had 21 or so swings at a franchise guy since 1999- that equals seven strike outs in a row. Just get the stud qb, and whoopee!!!! Playoffs here we come!!! Hate to tell ya- ain't that simple. Just tell that to Matt Ryan- or even better Matt Stafford- damn, best WR in the game, decent RB in Bush, a studly defense- and the Lions are sitting @ home watching the SB on TV, just like the Browns- hard to believe, LOL. R$$$GIII? Hehe. Rivers, Rothlisberger, Flacco- two of them (at least, maybe all three) will be sitting at home. Eli ain't coming this year either.

@brownb499 said:

I don't disagree with this...But we as fans expect to see at least some improvement through the course of the season or at least 1 aspect of our team to play at an NFL level...Most here thought it would be the defense...We drafted D...Brought in a big name coordinator...and played decent part of the year...But they didn't improve, they didn't get better, they got worse.

Thus all the bitching...and this thread.

The defense has totally collapsed at the end of the half, and in the fourth quarter of late- I can't blame the offense for that.

@bob806 said:

Pat Shurmur was better than Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel and maybe Chris Palmer even though I don't think he got a fair shake. People forget the Jamir Miller days when we had a very good defense comparable to this one....and Palmer was responsible for building it. In any case, I don't beleive Shurmur was our worst coach. Maybe because I to this day can't stand look at Butch Davis's face...I dunno.

@rooster-dick said:

Haha, I love this site. You guys repeat yourselves every year. Same time, same bitching.... Then after the draft you will land another worthless QB and have hope again. Repeat cycle.

@rooster-dick said:

Haha, I love this site. You guys repeat yourselves every year. Same time, same bitching.... Then after the draft you will land another worthless QB and have hope again. Repeat cycle.

You are aptly named.

@rooster-dick said:

Whereas clearly everyone should just give up, realise that no FO whatsoever will ever be able to draft a QB that can play well in Cleveland, abandon hope, let Haslam move the team to LA, condemn the stadium and convert to being Bengals fans?

Yeah, no thanks.

@miktoxic said:

Don't be a dick. Our QB's suck ass. It all starts with the QB.

@jrb12711 said:

@jrb12711 said:

I don't disagree with this...But we as fans expect to see at least some improvement through the course of the season or at least 1 aspect of our team to play at an NFL level...Most here thought it would be the defense...We drafted D...Brought in a big name coordinator...and played decent part of the year...But they didn't improve, they didn't get better, they got worse.

Thus all the bitching...and this thread.

Bottom line: IF the browns get a franchise guy, I guarantee we're staring at the playoffs next year. If we don't, it'll be another losing season.

Like many have pointed out we haven't drafted playmakers no matter where we pick...

...I'd gladly draft say12th in exchange for a winning mentality.Ya think the Steelers wouldn't like to

have the 3rd pick in the draft? Sure but instead they chose to continue a winning tradition...keep

showing up every Sunday and look at em now still in the playoff hunt and getting ready to kick our ass for

the second time this year.

This organization HAS got to change the culture here...That's the first step!

@clevfan4life said:

U are exactly the kind of Browns fan that is at least in part responsible for the way this organization has handled itself since 99. A coach cannot last 1 fucking year on this team without at a good portion of the fan base calling for his job. You know what that does? That makes the coaching staff and the FO make short term decisions because they know that if they don't sniff the playoffs by the end of year 2 they're gone. Why make personnel decisions that create a foundation from which to achieve elite status, you know, like the Patriots do....or (ughhhh) the Squeelers? Why would you? Put out a .500 team and you get another year...another year around .500'ish but who fucking cares you keep your job. We will never dig ourselves out of this with this kind of a shortsighted fan base. Please stop following the Browns, move on. I"m serious no joking. This situation here in Cleveland is simply untenable. I want them to build a dynasty here, can't ever happen when the fan base is screaming for the coach's heads before their 1st year is even up. What's so tragic and sad to me is that if we would have never fired Mangini this would have been his 5th year and it's a distinct possibility that we would be owning the AFC North given the state of affairs this year in our division. I would go so far as to say that even with Shurmur still coaching this year we could have taken advantage of that divisional letoff. But no...instead we are in year 1 of yet another rebuild as the rest of the North also goes into at least semi rebuild. We could be stepping on teams throats this year if we had even a modicum of stability at the FO and Coaching staff positions. So please just stop being Cleveland Browns fans, you're ruining it for the rest of us that understand this is gonna take awhile and wouldn't be calling for Chuds job even if we were gonna go 1-15.

Fortunately I suspect Haslam recognizes this and is on board with the sustained success formula. That's probably the message Banner gave him when he was interviewed.

@clevfan4life said:

I agree on a lot of what you wrote until right there....Pat Shurmer was the worst coach I've seen in my 43 years of following the Browns.

I am willing to give Chud some time, but hoping he learns from some of his decisions. It's Banner & Lombardi I'm more worried about.

It's truly hard to believe in this era of parity we can't get out of the 4-12/5-11 cycle.

@bob806 said:

Yes indeed- let's give wrs 10 yard cushions on third and ten. Not so hard to convert. & Roach, I'm sure you've noticed- Horton is dialing up blitzes that aren't working. Well, if you want to believe it's good news with the Browns sucking- Horton has coached himself out of a HC gig- we may be stuck with him.

@jcam222 said:

I could be wrong but I don't think we are as far away as you think. With 7 picks in rounds 1 thru 4 and a ton to spend in free agency we can do a lot more than a couple of players to right the ship.

That's assuming Lame-bardi has suddenly figured out how to recognize NFL caliber players, and we don't give away six of those seven picks to draft the next Mike Phipps.

Formerly Sane said:

yeah but it sure as hell helps if they make the right picks.......pay scale or not.

we've got too many holes to fill to waste away picks/players on some dreamy QB. i say go D or OL with #1.

go ahead start the attack.

@medicineman said:

U are exactly the kind of Browns fan that is at least in part responsible for the way this organization has handled itself since 99. A coach cannot last 1 fucking year on this team without at a good portion of the fan base calling for his job. You know what that does? That makes the coaching staff and the FO make short term decisions because they know that if they don't sniff the playoffs by the end of year 2 they're gone. Why make personnel decisions that create a foundation from which to achieve elite status, you know, like the Patriots do....or (ughhhh) the Squeelers? Why would you? Put out a .500 team and you get another year...another year around .500'ish but who fucking cares you keep your job. We will never dig ourselves out of this with this kind of a shortsighted fan base. Please stop following the Browns, move on. I"m serious no joking. This situation here in Cleveland is simply untenable. I want them to build a dynasty here, can't ever happen when the fan base is screaming for the coach's heads before their 1st year is even up. What's so tragic and sad to me is that if we would have never fired Mangini this would have been his 5th year and it's a distinct possibility that we would be owning the AFC North given the state of affairs this year in our division. I would go so far as to say that even with Shurmur still coaching this year we could have taken advantage of that divisional letoff. But no...instead we are in year 1 of yet another rebuild as the rest of the North also goes into at least semi rebuild. We could be stepping on teams throats this year if we had even a modicum of stability at the FO and Coaching staff positions. So please just stop being Cleveland Browns fans, you're ruining it for the rest of us that understand this is gonna take awhile and wouldn't be calling for Chuds job even if we were gonna go 1-15.