I am part of the generation of fans that has not seen a winner, being 30 years old my browns memories are of the drive, fumble, move and the horrors of 99 and on...I do not want the "Cleveland Buzzards" or "Cleveland Walleye" or whatever name they will come up with to win...I want to see the Cleveland Browns win, like my grandfather did, like my dad did. Its legacy is a connection to a past that I can only hear or read about.

If they ever do change it I will still be a fan of course (go Cleveland) but when they win, what was the "Browns" will only be remembered as a contrast to that success, which would not cure any heartbreak- only validate that the "Browns" were worth giving up on...and let me be one "young" Browns fan that says...SCREW THAT

GO BROWNS!

Ravens5220 said:

I highly disagree with you because that is similarly the same scenario a Baltimore Colts fan could play out with the Ravens. There's no guarantee that Modell keeping the Browns in Cleveland would have brought on winning football like it has consistently won in Baltimore. Modell left all the history, colors, heritage in Cleveland when he moved to Baltimore. What he took to Baltimore literally has NOTHING to do with Cleveland. So you cannot make a comparison.

[/quote Of course you disagree with me. If you agreed you would have to admit that the team you inherited was the Cleveland Browns...one of the most respected and winningest teams in the NFL history at that time. You like to think that as the team travelled from Cleveland to Baltimore, a metamorphesis took place, and those players, coaches, etc. suddenly had no connection to the Cleveland Browns. There was no guarantee that the Browns would have ever won another game...ever, if they stayed in Cleveland. Just as there is no guarantee the Baltimore Ravens will ever win another game...period. Same thing. However, the team had established itself long ago as a winning franchise, so it's safe to say, it would have remained that way. You worship Modell beecause he brought professional football back to Baltimore, and you couldn't care less how he did it. I'm sure we would all have a similar view of any owner who would have moved his franchise to Cleveland to fill the void...and there were many rumors flying around regarding that possibility. Do you fellow Browns fans remember?....most of us wanted a new team...we didn't want to steal the Bengals, the Buccaneers, or someone elses team. Keep in mind thought, that we were without football for only 3 seasons...not 12 years like you fans in Baltimore. After 12 years, I guess we would have been begging another owner to bring his team to Cleveland, too. Especially since there was no hope of an expansion franchise for Baltimore. Art Modell was instrumental in seeing to that.

And none of us had to walk to the mailbox to read that rubbish!

WSS

@poeticg said:

..says the Trent Richardson/Colt McCoy fanboy

Ravens5220 said:

You are right. What has happened in B-more has nothing to do with what might have happened here.

The thing that turned things around for Baltimore: The purchase of the team by Steve Bisciotti.

Had Modell not "moved", the Browns would have probably been sold to Al Lerner just a year or two earlier than they were.

Nothing much would have changed really.

The only possible positive difference may have been that Ozzie Newsome would have remained here to run this team, and not the Ravens.

But that is purely speculative.

@lodilobo said:

I highly disagree with you because that is similarly the same scenario a Baltimore Colts fan could play out with the Ravens. There's no guarantee that Modell keeping the Browns in Cleveland would have brought on winning football like it has consistently won in Baltimore. Modell left all the history, colors, heritage in Cleveland when he moved to Baltimore. What he took to Baltimore literally has NOTHING to do with Cleveland. So you cannot make a comparison.

@the-gipper said:

@lodilobo said:

Alright Dildo(I rarely resort to name calling, but you started it)...if I were a FRAK, I would have a closet full of Steelers, Bengals, Seahwawks and Broncos jerseys. All I have are Tim Couch, Charlie Frye, Derek Anderson, Kelly Holcomb, Spurgeon Winn, Colt McCoy, Brandon Weeden, Jason Campbell, and Brian Hoyer jerseys.

Well, then don't talk like a FRAK, wanting to root for some other team.Never said that...color option is not working

Can you fix a speeding ticket for me?

You would have to be stopped in the right jurisdiction.....and even then the answer would have to be NO. What kind of public servant do you think I am?

@lodilobo said:

Zombo said:

Well, I'll never give up- but it would be hard for most of the regulars around here to miss that I've never been as down about my team as I am right now. As I said "this team has hit rock bottom, and started to dig." Yes Jimmy, the rest of the NFL is laughing behind your back.

Let's hope Pettine turns into the next Paul Brown, and Lombardi finally gets a clue and drafts a couple all-pros in the 2014 draft.

There's a lot of hard feelings in the locker room that will need to be soothed- you can bet Joe Thomas is even more sick of the coaching carousel than we are.

@lodilobo said:

@lodilobo said:

I don't do PI. Probate, Bankruptcy, Real Estate, that sort of thing.

But yes, I do pull out information about the history of the game that educates all y'all.

If my trivia posts suck in your opinion....then I challenge you to do your own.

Otherwise, face it, you are just jealous because I am smarter, better looking and have a bigger dick.

@the-gipper said:

@lodilobo said:

Gipper...go fuck yourself.

Is that an offer?

I must have missed it when you were elected ruler of this board.

:huh:You didn't get the memo?

My post didn't insinuate in any way that I would root for another team. I'm damn tired of watching for the last 14 years as a an imposter of a team that I grew up with, changes owners and coaches with the same regularity that that you change your Depends.

Like what? You are the only one that is fed up?

This is not now, and never will be the same team that left here in '95. You can spew all the legal crap you want, about the franchise never left Cleveland...blah, blah, blah. It doesn't make it true.

Yes, it does, actually.

FYI, in my opinion if Modell had not done what he did...he would have simply sold the team to Al Lerner who became the owner anyway. And then we would have had Randy anyway. So it is not really like the history of this team would really have changed much. OPINION is the key word, here.

When Modell took the team, that was the end. It's something we should have recognized and accepted then. If your wife leaves you, then 4 years later, by some miracle, you find another woman to marry you, do you call her by the same name as your first wife?

No, but that is not the proper analogy. In this case, we were simply separated from the same wife for 3 years. Its just that when the same wife came back she had issues and developed Alzheimer's or something. But it is still the same woman.

No...my analogy was the proper one....it just took you 3 years to re marry. If your first wife was Carol, why do you insist on calling your second wife Carol, when her name is Ann?

different scenarios could have transpired. You're at the HOF with your 17 year old son. Scenario #1...you show him the proud history of the Cleveland Browns, and tell him. "Sadly, the scumbag owner moved the team in 1995, and took them to Baltimore, to become the Baltimore Ravens." "It was a great team, and one of the winningest professional teams in all of sports." Gee Dad...I sure wish I could have seen them play." Scenario #2....You show him the proud history of the Cleveland Browns, and he says.."The Browns? you mean the Cleveland Clowns, Dad. They suck! Have they ever won more than 5 games in a season?" The Steelers!.....that's my team!" Enjoy your delusional hope that some day, this fiasco will transform into the 1986 Browns. Reality sucks, but there it is. So sue me.

So? You admit that you suck balls at parenting such that you would really allow one of your children to root for the Steelers? Yes...I guess my parenting is so bad, I would encourage my kid to be himself/herself. By the way....we were using your offspring as an example. Not mine.

I would sue you for Child Abuse.Damn....you really are sue happy! I've always suspected as much.

Like I said, FRAK, if you want to root for a team with a different name....there are 31 others out there you can spoon over. Thanks for your permission.

@the-gipper said:

Well, my first wife (my oldest son's mother) was a Stoolers fan so that explains a lot right there. Living so close to the border you'll find a lot more of those around.

As for my DNA, no need to dig very far. My father's side is predominately Browns fans and where I get most of my sports affiliation. My mother's side is more the mix...and her roots are from PA. She's been in Ohio since she was about five, if I recall correctly, and so she has relatives (mostly the generation above her) are still in PA.

I do have a lot of body hair...and I've read that usually hair genes come from the mother's side. Thanks Mom. I'm Cro-Magnon. Browns mind trapped in a Stoolers body.

My second wife is a born and raised Cleveland girl, with family all around that area. So my younger son has much better odds! I take solace in this.

@tml1138 said:

I would check your family's DNA. There appears to still be some Troglodyte or Neanderthal blood still running in your family....and on occasion those recessive genes come to the forefront.

Zombo said:

You know, it is not like other teams haven't gone through tough times.....and more or less none of them changed their names.

I mean, the Cardinals are the oldest franchise in football, and still have the same name.

Now, some teams have changed their names for whatever reason. One of the reason that makes sense is if the franchise moves.....but this franchise DID NOT move, despite what people think. Some teams changed names years ago because they dropped their baseball affiliation. Here are teams that have changed their name:

Decatur Staleys....Chicago Bears

Portsmouth Spartans.....Detroit Lions

Houston Oilers.....Tennessee Titans

Boston Braves....Washington Redskins

Pittsburgh Pirates....Pittsburgh Steelers

New York Titans....NY Jets

Dallas Texans....Kansas City Chiefs

The Jets are the only team to change their name where it had nothing to do with a relocation or reidentification from a baseball teams name.

@the-gipper said:

Well shit. I'm thinking you didn't read my post and only replied to lodilobo's. My son is a great kid and has his head on straight. A's honor student has his private pilot's license, and is going to college for a degree in aviation. Yes somehow I failed miserably on where his sports loyalties lie. He's more of a hockey fan but his pro football team of choice is, sadly, the Stoolers. I jab at him constantly about this. It's like a disease in this part of Ohio. I have some family members that are Stooler fans, others are Browns fans with Stoolers fan spouses, and children too.

I promise it will be much better with my younger son. I'm older now and have learned from my mistakes.

Zombo said:

Jimmy is never changing the name, the helmet or the colors. Ever. Embrace the history.

We will be "veterans" of the great drought of 99-13, just like we are veterans of Red Right 88, The Drive, The Fumble and The Move.

All the sweeter when we win. We ARE the Cleveland Browns. The one constant is the fans.

We'll be back on top. And by the time we get there, every last front runner will have become a Steeler fan and it'll be us Real Browns fans celebrating the return of Greatness.

I'm willing to wait for it.

But I expect it next year.

Zombo

We will be "veterans" of the great drought of 99-13, just like we are veterans of Red Right 88, The Drive, The Fumble and The Move.

All the sweeter when we win. We ARE the Cleveland Browns. The one constant is the fans.

We'll be back on top. And by the time we get there, every last front runner will have become a Steeler fan and it'll be us Real Browns fans celebrating the return of Greatness.

I'm willing to wait for it.

But I expect it next year.

Zombo

@lodilobo said: