@rob-s-house said:

He had 5 sacks in less than 5 full games. He transitioned well enough.

And 10 tackles and only 1 pass defended. The OLB position isn't all about sacks. 3-4 OLB's are asked to do more than 4-3 DE's.

Jabaal Sheard played in half the Browns snaps, roughly equal to 8.5 games and recorded double Williams' tackles and 4 times as many passes defended, and he's not nearly the best OLB on our team.

Williams is a great DE. But he's not nearly as good when asked to stand up.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

He had 5 sacks in less than 5 full games. He transitioned well enough.

@billsfancny said:

You seem awfully worried about another team, so much so, that you actually spend your time posting on our forum trying to rile us up. If you're so happy that your loser DC is gone, then why don't you go post on your team's forum about how lucky you are to be rid of him.

We have better things to talk about here, like how your old DC is going to make our team better, and kick the shit out of your queer team. You know, like we did this year.

@billsfancny said:

Lot of talk about LB's here, Buffalo doesn't have great LB's but Pettine didn't use them anyway. The Bills almost never had 3 LB's on the field and in the modern NFL you're in nickle, dime, quarters most of the time anyway.You only need one good LB in the Pettine defense. You need pass rushers up front but Pettine uses LB's like the Manning Broncos use a FB. It's all about rushing the QB and covering receivers in his defense.

Except that no, you're wrong.

What he did in Buffalo was outstanding. But he was a 3-4 coordinator 5x as long as he was a 4-3 coordinator. To say that he doesn't use linebackers is absurd, it's just that Buffalo's OLB's were, frankly, garbage.

He made the most with what he had. You guys have a fantastic DL and a stable of solid secondary, so he put the best players on the field and let them work. That's a great quality. Unfortunately, it also resulted in the Bills defense being ranked among the worst in the NFL, which is understandable.

I don't expect to have him run in Cleveland what he ran in Buffalo. After all, he was only there for one year, hardly long enough to switch philosophies.

@billsfancny said:

No... he only put one LB on the field b/c he realized you only had one decent LB. Again, adjusting his system to the players he has. Pettine has always been brilliant at making sure the best players are on the field, in the right spots. Actually, having better LBs would help him b/c only putting one on the field created the Bills' difficulty in stopping the run...

With our personnel it may be more of a 3-4 b/c we have the OLBs for it. We'll still run a lot of 4-2-5 nickel, but nowhere near as much 4-1-6 dime as the Bills ran last year. But, no matter how great his system is at adapting, we still need an ILB and FS to lock-up our D...

@the-gipper said:

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Assuming a personnel shift to the 3-4:

That would not be a shift. Horton was running the 3-4 wasn't he?

Mingo, Sheard and Kruger would all start at OLB for Buffalo.

Rubin would be a heavy rotational player on the interior, he's best suited as a 2 gap lineman.

Haden would start over any corner you have, Gilmore included.

Ward would start over Jim Leonhard.

Conversely:

Byrd would start over Gipson.

Gilmore would start over Skrine, easily.

M. Williams would be a rotational OLB, as he didn't prove to transition well in 2011 in Houston before his injury.

K. Williams and Dareus would be solid DE's.

Kiko Alonso would start over any ILB on our roster, Jackson included.

It more or less is a wash. You have great players at positions of need for us, we have great players at positions of need for you. Not to discredit the Bills defense, because they're loaded with talent...but so are we.

On offense, there's no comparison. We have Gordon, Thomas, Mack and Cameron. You have literally everything else. Any one of you wideouts would start opposite Gordon. Any RB you have would start for us. Any guard you have would start for us. Your practice squad QB could start for us.

I, for one, love Jeff Tuel.

So, put both the Bills and Browns together and you might have a decent team? Play the games in Erie PA?

(FYI, it has already been done. When the NFL and AAFC merged.....the then AAFC Buffalo Bills were merged into the Cleveland Browns)

I meant a personnel shift for Buffalo, not Cleveland, in order to correctly matchup the overall talent levels.

Doug Marrone is a good coach but his biggest mistake was bringing OC Nate Hackett with him from Syracuse. Their offense was VERY predictable and often included runs up the middle on 1st and 2nd downs. This setup their rookie QB with constant 3rd and 6, 7, 8's, which then lead to 3 and out's and the 5th worst time of possession in the league, as well as the 4th worst yards per play, and the 4th worst 3rd down percentage.

Pettine is the type of guy who will fit the scheme around your players. I think you guys have a good future, especially with the picks you have in this upcoming draft. It sucks to see him leave, but I wish him and you guys the best.

You only need one good LB in the Pettine defense. You need pass rushers up front but Pettine uses LB's like the Manning Broncos use a FB. It's all about rushing the QB and covering receivers in his defense.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

@billsfancny said:

Not sure who said that but no, overall perhaps the two teams were similar.

Cleveland has just 2 Pro Bowlers on defense: Haden and TJ Ward. The DL is solid, though no Pro Bowlers named.

ILB is the weak spot. Wish we had a Kiko Alonso. We need to get one in this next draft.

@clevfan4life said:

Unfortuneately he may not have much say in that matter as that is something the Rainbow Coalition wants to keep to itself.

@billsfancny said:

I guess I'm not familiar with Cleveland's defensive personnel but the Bills did have the NFL Defensive ROY, a Pro Bowl FS and 3 Pro Bowl defensive lineman in 2013. Only Dareus was a first time Pro Bowler so if your personnel is better than that you guys should have at least 6 guys playing Sunday in Hawaii. Granted the Pro Bowl voting is somewhat reputation based but Cleveland's personnel is "much better"? Really?

Mingo, Sheard and Kruger would all start at OLB for Buffalo.

Rubin would be a heavy rotational player on the interior, he's best suited as a 2 gap lineman.

Haden would start over any corner you have, Gilmore included.

Ward would start over Jim Leonhard.

Conversely:

Byrd would start over Gipson.

Gilmore would start over Skrine, easily.

M. Williams would be a rotational OLB, as he didn't prove to transition well in 2011 in Houston before his injury.

K. Williams and Dareus would be solid DE's.

Kiko Alonso would start over any ILB on our roster, Jackson included.

It more or less is a wash. You have great players at positions of need for us, we have great players at positions of need for you. Not to discredit the Bills defense, because they're loaded with talent...but so are we.

On offense, there's no comparison. We have Gordon, Thomas, Mack and Cameron. You have literally everything else. Any one of you wideouts would start opposite Gordon. Any RB you have would start for us. Any guard you have would start for us. Your practice squad QB could start for us.

I, for one, love Jeff Tuel.

@dab7291993 said:

I feel like our defensive personnel is much better than Buffalo's, though.

It is. So it's even more amazing that he outperformed us with essentially only one linebacker.

@billsfancny said:

hey, i'm one with no disrespect towards a bill's fan. they are truly the only team that plays in NY. i loved them back in the day, i still like them a lot now. i have a neighbor who lives on the 2nd floor of my building who is a diehard bills fan who told me over a plate of mashed potatoes and gravy how he thought weeden would be great for the browns and also TR.

well we all know all that turned out but i told him that i thought emmanuel would be the guy and i still think that.

i loved jauron as our DC. i loved him as your HC. everybody writes him off off as a nobody.

our two teams have a lot in common. blue collar fans. cold weather on the lake. if the nfl was smart they'd throw buffallo in our division afcn, and put balitwhore in the afc east.

i like the buffalo way of life. reminds me of my childhood on lake erie.

Granted the Pro Bowl voting is somewhat reputation based but Cleveland's personnel is "much better"? Really?

@dab7291993 said:

I feel like our defensive personnel is much better than Buffalo's, though.

Secondary yes, our linebackers I'm not so sure about.

The d-line played well when healthy with Taylor/Bryant/Hughes/winn/bryant.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Agreed, the only defensive statistic that matters is points allowed and how it compares to points scored. I also agree that Pettine is a solid hire, and an underrated one. I think what I like the most about him is he seems like a guy who will bring some toughness to this team that it seems to lack. I wonder how he would have handled Jason Campbell's comments about the team having a hangover from the New England loss?

@rob-s-house said:

Playoffs?...lol...a win streak would be nice,at first.

@billsfancny said:

Like he had in his third year at SU? Marrone has much to prove himself.

Anyway, I do like Pettine but I don't see him as a head coach in the NFL right now. I'm more sold on him than Marrone but his defense did give up way too many points and it could turn out to be a blessing that he leaves.

Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in Pts. Against. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in sacks. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in interceptions. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in opposing QB rating. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in opposing QB completion percentage. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in defensive redzone efficiency. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in tackles. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in everything...except yards per game, where they gave up a mere one more yard per game...which puts them one place behind Cleveland in total defense.

Total defense is a bullshit statistic.

The '"boom or bust" defense you talk about Buffalo having...it was worse in Cleveland. Cleveland was in the top ten in 3-and-out drives, and also the bottom five in drives resulting in a touchdown.

We either gave up a TD or made the other team punt immediately.

Pettine is, I believe, a very solid and underrated hire. How he handles the head coaching position remains to be seen, but he's surely earned a chance based on his resume.