XxDaBuckeyexX said:

Love that guy, would like to see him against NFL caliber guys though..Think he needs to get stronger but his measurable's are what your looking for and he does everything you want on film. Wouldn't mind seeing him in a Brown's uniform

@the-gipper said:

buffalo had a really good team a couple of years ago when gill was their head coach.

@clevelandmilidh said:

Telvin Smith from Florida State, he converted to ILB from Safety, same height as Kiko needs to add a few pounds, but runs a 4.4 and is great in coverage. Pettine likes speed at that postion and he's got a whole lot of it. Question is if he adds wait can he maintain it.

Zombo said:

Telvin Smith from Florida State, he converted to ILB from Safety, same height as Kiko needs to add a few pounds, but runs a 4.4 and is great in coverage. Pettine likes speed at that postion and he's got a whole lot of it. Question is if he adds wait can he maintain it.

Z

@clevfan4life said:

Mack's a great talent and I would have been ok drafting him even not having released DQ. The problem I now see is that we'd be asking the kid to play a new position..which is fine I don't see why he couldn't move inside, but god dammit would it not have been helpful as fuck for him to learn from one of the best ILB'ers in the NFL? Now I'm not 100% convinced we take a guy who's raw at that position. What are we going to do...have him learn under Craig Robertson? Also a guy who could have stood to learn under DQ for another year or two. Gah!! whatever.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

You're on to something there though. Why they don't do this with the sleds I don't know since they all use em in practice since pee wee. Make these guys take a 300+lb sled and drive it over a predetermined distance for time...than make them sprint off to the sideline or something. That is a much better indicator of field strength than having your back supported by a bench...a dynamic that never comes into play on the field unless scouts are now interested in how quickly players can bench their way out from underneath a pile.

XxDaBuckeyexX said:

It's way too technique oriented. If your hands aren't in the right spot on the bar, it's goin over once you dip into the movement. Great excercise, just not one I would want athletes doing as a requisite to their draft prospects....guys are gonna push it and get sloppy cause millions of dollars could be at stake. With disastrous consequences.

@saxmachine69 said:

wow, you guys who are saying Mack is a fit at ILB have no clue what you're talking about. He's not too small to play OLB, Mingo is 10 pounds lighter than he is.

Mack is a pass rusher, no matter where he goes 3-4/4-3/hybrid, doesn't matter, his primary job will be to blitz and get after the QB. However, he does have enough coverage ability to cover flats or shorter routes. But he's not a fluid enough athlete to be running with TEs 30 yards downfield. His absolute ideal position would be as a 3-4 OLB. However, like Von Miller, he has enough coverage ability to play OLB in a 4-3. He's versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 on passing down, probably could even play inside linebacker at times, or maybe even DT on obvious passing downs like Tuck or Everson Griffen in Minnesota. But he's not suited to play those positions regularily

Err, dudes fast, strong, and the right size. Can cover, tackle, attack, etc.

Don't really understand what you meant about the size. But if you look at guys like kuechly, kiko alonso, patrick Willis they're all very successful ILBs that are pretty much the same size or slightly smaller than Mack.

@saxmachine69 said:

wow, you guys who are saying Mack is a fit at ILB have no clue what you're talking about. He's not too small to play OLB, Mingo is 10 pounds lighter than he is.

Mack is a pass rusher, no matter where he goes 3-4/4-3/hybrid, doesn't matter, his primary job will be to blitz and get after the QB. However, he does have enough coverage ability to cover flats or shorter routes. But he's not a fluid enough athlete to be running with TEs 30 yards downfield. His absolute ideal position would be as a 3-4 OLB. However, like Von Miller, he has enough coverage ability to play OLB in a 4-3. He's versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 on passing down, probably could even play inside linebacker at times, or maybe even DT on obvious passing downs like Tuck or Everson Griffen in Minnesota. But he's not suited to play those positions regularily

@miktoxic said:

I think the fact that Buffalo picked up kiko alonso - presumably with the help of their then-DC, Pettine and then-LB coach, O'Neill - in the second round shows that they are capable of picking up top tier talent at the position without necessarily spending a high draft pick on them. But I think unless we sign a big time ILB from the FA pool, it's shot up to number 2 or 3 on our list of needs.

@saxmachine69 said:

i think the fact that the browns just cut DQ will prove you wrong.

Mack is a pass rusher, no matter where he goes 3-4/4-3/hybrid, doesn't matter, his primary job will be to blitz and get after the QB. However, he does have enough coverage ability to cover flats or shorter routes. But he's not a fluid enough athlete to be running with TEs 30 yards downfield. His absolute ideal position would be as a 3-4 OLB. However, like Von Miller, he has enough coverage ability to play OLB in a 4-3. He's versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 on passing down, probably could even play inside linebacker at times, or maybe even DT on obvious passing downs like Tuck or Everson Griffen in Minnesota. But he's not suited to play those positions regularily

@clevfan4life said:

But it doesn't do that. Field strength/leverage is what is most crucial....knowing whether someone is an every down athlete is by looking at tape. Is he flat lining at the end of games? Mike Kudla benched 225 what, 45 times? And he was found out to not be an every down athlete. You can train the 225 up, which is what alot of guys do, and it translates nothing to the field. If you want to test these guys properly have them do an interval training routine where they have to do something to get their heart rate up and then lift some kind of weight. Heck, i think making the guys do ring pushups with weight on their back is a far better test of their core than bench pressing. A guy can train to bench 225 alot of times but still have a mediocre core, which means mediocre field strength.

I don't think you quite understand the statement "it's not meant to test field strength".

You can judge speed by watching game tape. You can judge lateral agility by watching game tape. The best judge of a player is by his game tape. So why even have a combine?

The point is to eliminate as many variables as possible and have these athletes perform the same workouts to get a measuring stick. It's not a perfect system, but it provides another measurable statistic other than film.

An ideal scenario would be to have them go up against a 335 LB. lineman 45 times, but that's not feasible.

@clevfan4life said:

oh god, just asking for seperated shoulders..lol. Brutal exercise.

XxDaBuckeyexX said:

oh god, just asking for seperated shoulders..lol. Brutal exercise.

@clevfan4life said:

But it doesn't do that. Field strength/leverage is what is most crucial....knowing whether someone is an every down athlete is by looking at tape. Is he flat lining at the end of games? Mike Kudla benched 225 what, 45 times? And he was found out to not be an every down athlete. You can train the 225 up, which is what alot of guys do, and it translates nothing to the field. If you want to test these guys properly have them do an interval training routine where they have to do something to get their heart rate up and then lift some kind of weight. Heck, i think making the guys do ring pushups with weight on their back is a far better test of their core than bench pressing. A guy can train to bench 225 alot of times but still have a mediocre core, which means mediocre field strength.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

But it doesn't do that. Field strength/leverage is what is most crucial....knowing whether someone is an every down athlete is by looking at tape. Is he flat lining at the end of games? Mike Kudla benched 225 what, 45 times? And he was found out to not be an every down athlete. You can train the 225 up, which is what alot of guys do, and it translates nothing to the field. If you want to test these guys properly have them do an interval training routine where they have to do something to get their heart rate up and then lift some kind of weight. Heck, i think making the guys do ring pushups with weight on their back is a far better test of their core than bench pressing. A guy can train to bench 225 alot of times but still have a mediocre core, which means mediocre field strength.

@clevfan4life said:

I hate the 225lb test...it's dumb and means absolutely nothing. It's been categorically proven to not test field strength. But guys who know they're draft stock may not be that high start training it up a year out and become combine stars. Guarantee you that Clowney wasn't specifically training his 225 until after the season ended. Everybody gushed about Margus Hunt last year and his 225 and 40 marks....where is he now? I have no idea, have heard nothing about him. Is he still on someone's roster? Did he get on the field once this year? Bjoern Werner put up 24 or 25 times, Ansah put it up like 22 or 23....Werner got major playing time on the Colts at the end of the year subbing in for Mathis. Ansah I beleive became the starting DE for the Lions somewhere midseason. The 225 means approx shit. WHen you have a bench behind you supporting you...you're not bringing your core into the lift, which is the basis of field strength. CLowney plays with some of the most explosive leverage I"ve ever seen. And a couple years in the NFL and he'll put up 30+ on the 225 too for whatever that means.

THat speed though cannot be taught. And he's not straight line either, he's fluid and can change direction.

The point isn't to test field strength. It's to test muscular endurance.

It's a good way to determine who's a brute strength, one play push kind of guy and who's more of an every down athlete.

How bout Clowney/Mack and Bridgwater (trade up).