@walterwhite said:

Means nothing.

Manziel also have 2 potential TOP 10 players playing with him (Evans and Mathews).

@canton-mike said:

You mean like asking: Did Johhny Manziel make Mike Evans....or did Mike Evans make Johhny Manziel?

@john.r.brown1968 said:

THERE is the great question, every year....the team AROUND the player, be they QB, WR, etc. I think QB & WR are most affected by their team. A great QB with no OL & WRs who can't catch may look lousy. The WR who plays with no other viable receivers and/or has a dud for a QB could look awful. We could go on & on, but THOSE are the guys that great talent evaluaters can find (often in small schools).

Mike

(threads about bridgewater...remember?)

http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYards/year/2013/group/80

it's amazing how manziel and bridgewater took more sacks than carr, isn't it?

@mike-h said:

Ask and you shall receive

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=statsinfo&id=81639&src=desktop

Very very interesting mike... Though stats only tell part of the story this really took me by surprise!

He definitely bails from the pocket more than any other high-profile QB, which is a terrible quality for a QB.

@mike-h said:

The more I read, the more it seems like massive groupthink, and then certain guys trying to break out from the herd with outlandish opinions.

Hoge and Jaws are definitely seeking web hits, there's no way with all their experience they can believe Manziel isn't worth a 1st 2nd or 3rd-round pick.

Starting to hate this.

I finished my grad school project yesterday and am going to get back into the swing of things, just in time, but it's gotten to the point where this event is more about popularity and rumor to drive advertising than it is about talent evaluation.

I hope you are enjoying your visit to the 21st century!

WSS

GuNNerGatSKy said:

Carr's flashes of Weedenitis scare me, but at least he won't be a 30 year old Rookie.

@miktoxic said:

i know. but that's the only knock on him. each and everyone of these guys have something negative in their game.

it's just who has what the FO sees in them i guess.

Well that and his mechanics are all over the fucking place Mik. The fact of the matter is this kid has a goddamn cannon for an arm and never had to fully develop his mechanics and consistency with said mechanics to make all the throws. He has a great enough arm to just rocket that SOB out of there even with shitty footwork and follow through.

I honestly think IF Carr can correct those two issues he will be a fantastic QB. From all accounts he has great football IQ, leadership, and ability to run an offense. I'm just very very concerned that much like Weeden, Carr's issues with pressure, composure, and faltering mechanics while under pressure are ingrained in his psyche and thought processes. If that's the case it will be extremely difficult to develop those defects out of his game, as we just witnessed for two years with weeds. That's the million dollar question with this kid.

@vaportrail said:

i know. but that's the only knock on him. each and everyone of these guys have something negative in their game.

it's just who has what the FO sees in them i guess.

@osiris said:

If this doesn't impress you than you are a tough sell!

Where's the miracle? It was nothing at all spectacular.

@miktoxic said:

i just think the bridgewater pre-draft fluff machine has been out in full force. i just don't see it. there's no fire in the way he moves. there's no fire in the way he communicates. it's like the light bulb is on but it's battery operated.

there's no way bridgewater feels the pressure better than manziel, i mean that's what JF is all about, that's what the scouts love about him. does he look to get out of the pocket when he feels the pressure? yep. but it's better than taking a sack.

like i said i'm not fans of either but if it came down to the two, manziel would be my pick.

now if you want a pocket passer, take carr.

I'd buy most of that. I don't like Carr but I think the Browns do. I also should have prefaced it with I'm not sure who I like more of Manziel or Bridge. Bortles is my number 1 but I'm not in love with any of them.

I probably explained t weird. I think Manziel is so good at creating with his feet that he sacrifices plays before there is any pressure on him so he can use his biggest weapon which is his feet. I don't think that will work in the NFL and definitely not like it does in NCAA.

There is a difference between moving in the pocket like Bridge does from pressure and creating plays with your legs like Manziel does.

He is also one of the worst QBs against the blitz which to my non-scout eye is mainly about recognizing pressure or to a lesser degree his height but I don't subscribe to that too much.

@miktoxic said:

Carr does not step up into the pocket when the heat comes. He bails the pocket at the first sign of pressure, and he's not nearly as elusive as Johnny. If you want a pocket passer, go with Bortles or McCarron.

@downsouthkc said:

i just think the bridgewater pre-draft fluff machine has been out in full force. i just don't see it. there's no fire in the way he moves. there's no fire in the way he communicates. it's like the light bulb is on but it's battery operated.

there's no way bridgewater feels the pressure better than manziel, i mean that's what JF is all about, that's what the scouts love about him. does he look to get out of the pocket when he feels the pressure? yep. but it's better than taking a sack.

like i said i'm not fans of either but if it came down to the two, manziel would be my pick.

now if you want a pocket passer, take carr.

@downsouthkc said:

I'm comparing him to Tebow and McCoy. What do you think?

@miktoxic said:

My only thing is that I don't care if a player can run around and make plays on his feet like Manziel or RG3 I'd rather have someone that stays in the pocket and extends plays with his feet like Brady does or more similiarly like Russy Wilson does.

I know you can squelch it a little but the problem I have with Manziel is the times that he runs out of a wide open pocket and then creates with his legs. I mean, obviously its not bad in NCAA but its not going to happen in the NFL with the same risk vs. reward. I'd rather he stick in the pocket, wiggle when he needs too and get the ball to Gordon, Cameron, Hawkins instead of using his feet as much. I don't know if Im explainging that. I guess Im saying I feel like Bridgewater feels pressure better than Manziel but Manziel is more electric with his legs.

@vaportrail said:

I'm a little confused, was this an argument for or against Manziel?

@osiris said:

i've seen that. impressive how he got out of the containment but if that's what you want, look at film from JF. he did that twice a game, every game basically.

a 'miracle' toss to a wide open guy in the end zone does nothing for me. if a QB CAN'T do that then they shouldn't play the position.

i personally don't like either of them but if you want 'miracle' throws and escapability there's no way bridgewater even comes close to JF.

@miktoxic said:

i don't have a job in the nfl but i can still see and bridgewater has done nothing to impress me.

i'd rather see JF land here than that china doll.

i'd rather see JF land here than that china doll.