told that they are owed a free living. Democrat party created a wont'-work population

that is locked in to voting for taxpayers subsidizing their sloth as long as possible.

And inviting illegals to come here, and add them to the same subculture, gets more votes.

Trouble is, we are already in 17+ trillion bucks in debt.

It is impossible to continue it for too many more years...

Worst thing the likes of LBJ and all, ever could have done. If only those who WON'T

ever work, would get job training and take care of themselves.

But so many don't know any better, don't care where they are.

@gftchris said:

No I got your point, I just disagree with it. To an extent - I can understand that they haven't been through whatever adversity drove Pedro Sr to swim to California, and so perhaps don't have the "it's so much better here than back home" work ethic.

But even so, even if they just work as hard as regular people, it still doesn't have a big impact on the overall situation. If you removed all first and second generation immigrants from the country, you'd still have the same pension problem.

And the pensioners the overpaid government workers the bloated unions are all made up of the children and grandchildren of immigrants.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

No I got your point, I just disagree with it. To an extent - I can understand that they haven't been through whatever adversity drove Pedro Sr to swim to California, and so perhaps don't have the "it's so much better here than back home" work ethic.

But even so, even if they just work as hard as regular people, it still doesn't have a big impact on the overall situation. If you removed all first and second generation immigrants from the country, you'd still have the same pension problem.

@gftchris said:

Disregarding your insinuation that descendants of immigrants do not work; remove all immigrants from the population - you still have the same problem of pensions.

, Lebanese, Egyptians, etc you name it work their ass off doing shitty jobs for low pay. Their children born as citizens of the US don't feel the need to do that. Not that they don't work it's just that they don't work nearly as hard as the first generation.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Disregarding your insinuation that descendants of immigrants do not work; remove all immigrants from the population - you still have the same problem of pensions.

@gftchris said:

That relies on there actually being work for them to do though, which there likely isn't, given the relatively high unemployment rates of late, unless we're going to live in eternal economic boom, which of course we won't.

Well I might suggest that it has more to do with the fact that the children and grandchildren of immigrants don't care to bust their ass for low wages.

WSS

@gftchris said:

I wish I were elderly and didn't have to worry about shenanigans that are surely going to be on the horizon.

@logicisforsquares said:

That relies on there actually being work for them to do though, which there likely isn't, given the relatively high unemployment rates of late, unless we're going to live in eternal economic boom, which of course we won't.

@gftchris said:

The first world will have to rely on immigrants who produce tons of kids and hope that they have kids who want to work.

@logicisforsquares said:

Retirement age is going up, but slowly. I agree though that state funded pensions and things like that essentially amount to a ponzi scheme with the working population paying in and the retired people (who paid in first) collecting. It relies on the working population increasing steadily, but obviously that's stopped happening. So now we need to get to a situation where, since the population is roughly levelling out, the working population can support the retired population. More jobs needed, people working longer, etc. etc.

Not easy to fix.

They would have to change retirement age and hope that more productive people start producing more productive kids. Highly unlikely at this point.