@canton-mike said:

Why Schottenheimer was so enamored with him, we wil never no. Even the scout that dubbed him the "mad dog in a meat market" thought he was a second rounder:

Junkin was selected with the fifth overall pick in the 1987 NFL Draft by the Cleveland Browns. To acquire him, the Browns traded Chip Banks along with their first and second-round picks to the San Diego Chargers for their first and second-round picks.^[12] In regards to the selection, head coach Marty Schottenheimer stated that scout Dom Anile had watched him play, and compared his playing style to "a mad dog in a meat market."^[13] However, Anile saw him as a second-round talent despite the quote, and felt he was not worth the fifth overall selection, but Schottenheimer overruled his scouts and selected Junkin with that pick.^[2]

Entering the 1987 Cleveland Browns season, Junkin was projected to be the starting outside linebacker opposite Clay Matthews, Jr. despite playing inside linebacker in college, which generated criticism around the league as a transition that would be difficult for him to make.^[14] After a 16-day holdout, the Browns and Junkin agreed to a four-year deal worth nearly two million dollars.^[15] After missing the first preseason game against the St. Louis Cardinals, he made his debut against the New York Giants. In that game, he played the second half and failed to record a tackle.^[16] By the end of training camp, due to struggles learning the outside linebacker position, he made the roster, but lost the starting job to Anthony Griggs.^[17] After the Browns moved to a 4-3 defense for the second game against the Pittsburgh Steelers, Junkin made his debut, and the plan was for him to gradually see more playing time each week.^[18] In early November, due to a combination of a players' strike and an injured wrist, Junkin was placed on the injured reserve list and replaced on the active roster by David Grayson.^[19]

Due to a combination of the Browns drafting Clifford Charlton and Junkin's desire to move back inside, the Browns planned to move him back to inside linebacker for the 1988 Cleveland Browns season.^[20] He spent training camp competing with Eddie Johnson for the second inside linebacker position alongside Mike Johnson, and by the end of preseason play, Junkin had won the starting job.^[21] In his first career start against the Kansas City Chiefs, Junkin had six tackles, including the first one of the game in a 6–3 Browns win.^[22] A month later, Junkin injured his knee, and was forced to miss several games. He returned to the team in early November, but Johnson had played so well in Junkin's absence that he spent the next few weeks as the backup inside linebacker.^[23] He was given the starting job again to end the season, but missed tackles and a lack of impact plays led to his second season being considered a disappointment.^[24]

In early 1989, Schottenheimer was fired as Browns head coach, and took the head coaching job with the Kansas City Chiefs. He still had faith in Junkin, unlike the Browns, and traded a fifth-round pick to bring him to Kansas City.^[25] Two weeks after the trade, a report came out that Junkin had taken steroids provided by a doctor to treat an injured ankle, and had failed a drug test at the scouting combine as a result.^[26][27] Entering the 1989 Kansas City Chiefs season, Junkin competed with Walker Lee Ashley for the second inside linebacker spot alongside Dino Hackett.^[28] Ashley won the job, and Junkin played five games before a shoulder injury sidelined him for the rest of the season. He was released from the Chiefs after season's end, and retired after not being signed by any team through the 1990 season.^[29]

Junkin became known as a draft bust due to his unproductive career.^[2] An ESPN article in 2008 noted Junkin noted as the eighth biggest draft bust of all time.^[30] He was also named one of the Cleveland' Browns worst three draft picks from 1995 or earlier.^[31]

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Junkin}

I'll stick with Junkin...he was rated as no better than a 2nd round talent, yet Marty traded our #24 1st rounder, our 2nd rounder, AND All Pro LB Chip Banks to draft the guy with the 5th overall pick in the entire draft!!!. We probably could have gotten Junkin with our 2nd rounder. Now, THAT is a reach.

Just for information sake, he played in just 20 NFL games.

Mike

@cambridgeho said:

I am going to go with a reach that has been a pleasnt surprise for us. Mr John Huges. He has been a very good D lineman since he has came out of Cincy. He thought that he wasnt going to get drafted but we took him in the 3rd.

Hughes was another of the paranoid picks of 2012. Yet in the same draft we had a steal in the person of our 2nd 6th Round pick, Billy Winn.

@mld-woody said:

I would consider a "reach" any player that gets drafted earlier than experts think they will.

How they perform from that point out has nothing to do with the "reach" title.

I think performance is a factor. Maybe not to the extent I was letting it be in my mentioning TR, but it can validate either the organization's or the "expert's" judgment.

@the-gipper said:

Other Browns reaches: Brian Robiskie, Mohammed Massaquoi......or just about any WR taken by the Browns in Round 2 the last 15 years.

They both sucked, but I think they were both projected around the 2nd in the draft.

@the-gipper said:

crazy none of them panned out. Also, how about that Travis Wilson in the 3rd, wth. we have no WR luck.

@mld-woody said:

Fair enough....though the team that draft what experts think is a reach might disagree.

@mld-woody said:

Bad evaluation by the people projecting - Mel Kiper etc.

@pumpkin-eater said:

Well you are wrong.

Then please sir, define what you think a "reach" is.

If a player is projected to go in the 6th, and is taken in the 2nd, but then goes on to play as well as a 2nd rounder should, what is he? I still say, when he was drafted, he was a reach

@mld-woody said:

I would consider a "reach" any player that gets drafted earlier than experts think they will.

How they perform from that point out has nothing to do with the "reach" title.

Well you are wrong.

@mld-woody said:

I would consider a "reach" any player that gets drafted earlier than experts think they will.

How they perform from that point out has nothing to do with the "reach" title.

I agree with you. I also agree Heyward-Bey (sp) might be the biggest reach I can think of but the whole Al Davis doing the drafting thing negates it a bit in my book.

@the-gipper said:

I would consider a "reach" any player that gets drafted earlier than experts think they will.

How they perform from that point out has nothing to do with the "reach" title.

@the-gipper said:

Im wondering if reach is a label put on them during their placement among the scouts. Like if Clowney is rated at 99 and I was rated at 50, and I played as good as Clowney but I was taken in the 3. i would have been considered a reach at that time beig rated so low.

@mld-woody said:

I think, by definition that if a "reach" plays well, ergo, he was not a reach.

Raymond Berry #232

Bart Starr #200

Deacon Jones #186

George Blanda #119

Roger Staubach #129

John Unitas #102

Leroy Kelley #110

Shannon Sharpe #192

Mike Webster #125

Steve Largent #117

Joe Montana #82

Dick Night Train Lane UDFA

Willie Brown UDFA

Willie Wood UDFA

Warren Moon UDFA via Canada

John Randle UDFA

What about a reach that ended up playing well? That is why I mentioned Mitchell at safety earlier. Is the only classification still a reach?

Reach that plays well vs reach that plays poor

@mld-woody said:

I think there is a difference between a bust and a reach.

A bust is a guy that everyone thinks will be good...but fails. Gholston is a bust, but he was drafted about where people thought he should be....just everyone was wrong about him. (Just like Leaf, Russell etc.....guys everyone had evaluated well who didn't turn out so good).

A reach is a guy that was overdrafted.....where no one really had that player ranked nearly as high as he was taken. Chaun Thompson, Veikune, guys like that who were rated low but drafted high.

The one guy the Browns took this year that many believe may have been a reach was Christian Kerksey. Rated about 150-180, drafted at #71.

Contrariwise there is The Steal. A guy drafted really low (or undrafted) who becomes really good. We hope Desir is that guy.

So...Okay , let's take it there

Who is the biggest Steal in a draft?

Aytahba Rubin....6th rounder, most recently

Tashaun Gipson...UDFA....he is improving all the time.

Tom Brady....obviously

Brian Sipe....13th round

Others?

@vagitron said:

Ted Ginn I agree. Heyward bey has shown flashes and it may just take the right system. You however are insanely wrong on mike Mitchell. He was the backbone of that defense in Carolina. Hit their boards about his departure. The steelers don't sign bigger free agents and they came out on day on and gave him 5 million per...he's more of a ballhawk than Ryan Clark and faster. Cut from exactly the same cloth. How exactly did you come to that conclusion anyway? Just figured he's a Steeler now..gotta be a bust lol. Oakland gave up on him too soon.

I missed the part in the OP where they also performed poorly on the field.

I was just listing guys that made me think "Wtf are they doing" when they were drafted

My bad

@vagitron said:

I wonder if he meant Mack Mitchell, not Mike Mitchell. Mack Mitchell was a DL taken by the Browns...I think in Round 1, sometime in the 70s. Major bust.

@cambridgeho said:

The exact guy that came to mind when this thread popped up. Not only (by reports) could he have been had much much later, we we're converting him to an inside linebacker. That may not have been so bad, but if I remember correctly, the dude played DT in college. Pretty drastic transaction to make there.