@tour2ma said:

... and I think comparing one player's season stats to another's career stats is nonsensical cherry-picking.

I know... for the season Hoyer was 5-3. But all three INTs were in his first game where he had to throw 54 passes to compete.

Steve, I'm not over-the-moon enamored with Hoyer, but I am optimistic.

Me too but like the TV show says Curb Your Enthusiasm guys.

As soon as he throws three pics in game 1 or two or the team goes 0 & 2 you guys will be screaming give us Barabas!

WSS

@westside-steve said:

9-9 touchdown interception versus 7-6.

... and I think comparing one player's season stats to another's career stats is nonsensical cherry-picking.

I know... for the season Hoyer was 5-3. But all three INTs were in his first game where he had to throw 54 passes to compete.

Steve, I'm not over-the-moon enamored with Hoyer, but I am optimistic.

@tour2ma said:

While I agree that "excited" would be a bit much...

- 25 of 38 (65.8%) for 269 yds 2 TD and 0 INTs, and a 104 rating is hardly "mediocre"; and

- leaving a game where you were 2/4 for 25 yds was hardly bad enough to require a bail-out.

And as for the "bail-out" itself...

- Benji Weedon returned a punt for a TD and T.J. Weedon had a pick 6...

- but Wheezy (13/24 for 197 1 TD and 0 INT) did throw a long TD to Gordon and had a key throw-away late... on 4th and 6...

9-9 touchdown interception versus 7-6.

I like the guy too but I think you guys are getting blinded by love and hate at the same time.

WSS

@miktoxic said:

I'd bring in a local baseball coach to help with that. It doesn't have to be a guy with the Indians. Baldwin Wallace has a baseball team if I am not mistaken. He could probably walk from his field to the Browns complex.

@westside-steve said:

Also Hoyer had two mediocre games that we won. And one bad one that Brandon Weeden came in and bailed him out. Yes I like the brian hoyer story. I just think its a bad idea to get too excited.

While I agree that "excited" would be a bit much...

- 25 of 38 (65.8%) for 269 yds 2 TD and 0 INTs, and a 104 rating is hardly "mediocre"; and

- leaving a game where you were 2/4 for 25 yds was hardly bad enough to require a bail-out.

And as for the "bail-out" itself...

- Benji Weedon returned a punt for a TD and T.J. Weedon had a pick 6...

- but Wheezy (13/24 for 197 1 TD and 0 INT) did throw a long TD to Gordon and had a key throw-away late... on 4th and 6...

I'm happy with him starting. If there's anything he isn't getting done, and it's on him,

Manziel may step in and take over at that point.

I didn't see Hoyer not being the guy, it was other stuff.

WSS

B. He killed it in preseason. He looked and played outstanding. He was sharp, accurate, instinctual, showed his arm strength and confident.

But of that blew up however when the real bright lights were turned on for the regular season. He won the competition in training camp over the other two. He lost it immediately however with his bad play.

@mr.-make-believe said:

haha - youre a Browns fan where optimism meets reality a week after Labor day. Then it either waxes or wanes from there....

@taco918 said:

Edited out the superfluous...

@topdawg31 said:

you have to go back to the day he was drafted, our moronic coach named him the starter the day he was drafted.

You don't draft a 29 year old QB with the expectation he's going to sit and learn.

we'll see how it plays out by halloween. either the browns are in contention and looking strong or we are on here discussing who they're going to draft next year.

@hish747 said:

I believe it's impossible to evaluate a QB based on stats in the preseason. A smart coaching staff should be able to determine the best QB based on what they see in their own building. Weeden looked like Johnny Unitas in the preseason until that 3rd PS game then the real Weeden was exposed. Hoyer and JFF will look like Unitas this preseason as will most PS QB's. Hoyer is on the verge of becoming a very good starting QB in the NFL.

@mr.-make-believe said:

you have to go back to the day he was drafted, our moronic coach named him the starter the day he was drafted.

@mr.-make-believe said:

Actually, I think Weeden was better than Hoyer in camp and preseason. Here are the stats from the 2013 preseason.

Weeden 30 for 50 (60%) 3 TD 0 INT 99.9 QB Rating

Hoyer 37 for 60 (66.6%) 2 TD 3 INT 79.2 QB Rating

Also, in preseason Weeden didn't have that much pressure. When pressured, as happens in real life, Weeden completely fell apart. He seemed almost slow witted at times. An example of this is one time when I saw him wind up, a defender put his hand up, Weeden appeared to have time to adjust and still threw the ball right into the defender's hand. Not to mention what happened with his shovel pass and lob.

I like Hoyer and think he probably put in a lot of work in the off season to get smarter and stronger up top. While I liked the excitement that Hoyer brought last year, I'm not one of those who were super impressed with what he did. That said, this year's optimism isn't mainly based on Hoyer. I think it's defense, running game and the potential for an interesting passing game using more TE, RB and mobility at QB. Also, there's a lot of hope with the coaching staff.

Weeden was a former first round pick and they almost had to give him a shot to prove himself---one way or another. I hated Weeden and argued w/the majority that said he would improve in Norv's offense. I maintained that he couldn't read defenses and especially coverages, thus he would suck no matter what the offense was. But, I understood why they had to give him a shot.

I do think Hoyer caught the eye of the coaching staff and FO early on. He was efficient in camps and practices and that is why he vaulted past Campbell once Weeden was injured.

@ibleedbrown said:

... the main 2 participants were Weeden and Jason Campbell.

That's a key point for TC. But have to also remember that Hoyer leap-frogged Campbell to get the MN start.

Wheezy was another form of QB fools-gold. He had the size and the arm, and unfortunately little more.

@mr.-make-believe said:

I ask this, because it appears the buzz so far has been about how good and poised Hoyer is and how quickly he gets the ball out of his hands, etc.

...what I'm afraid of (is)... that this feeling of optimism is only somewhat justified. That Hoyer's effectiveness in these mini-camps is being overstated.

This year feels different than those. More along the lines of understanding that the Browns are better, rather than merely telling myself that they are. Am I a fool though? Is this perennial empty positivity a shared delusion among Browns fans and is this year ACTUALLY reasonably better than the past?

If you're a fool to be optimistic about this team, then at least you have a lot of company around here. While there are few pessimists, we are primarily optimists to varying degrees. I put myself around the middle of the latter pack. Hoyer is only partly responsible for my optimism. Other than Brian's rehab going very well, my optimism has little to do with his camp performance to date.