@emdiggy said:

The difference btw he and RG3 is that RG3, like Vick, is a reckless runner. Manziel is not 'as' reckless of a runner. He actually runs under more control ala Russell Wilson & Vince Young. They don't take as many shots as the aforementioned guys do. Reading a defense is reading a defense if you're a QB. It doesn't matter if you're an option QB, zone read, spread, pro-style-PA or west coast…there's reads that are involved and it's your job to make decisions & keep the offense on pace. Did he do that at Texas A&M? Yes.

And didn't RG3 lead the Redskins to the playoffs in his 1st season? And despite coming back from injury last year, he played quite well. Those are two facts.

JM is not close to the controlled runner that Wilson is... not to my eye at least. And JM ran himself into two hits last year that resulted in injuries and his least productive games of the year... a fact that is as clear in his game stats as it was on the field. It's a product of his hyper competitive nature and it will be his undoing, if he is thrust into play before his reads improve.

Like RG3, JM is not ready for a league where a 300+ lb lineman can deliver a mid-air, midsection blow, downfield, that is so hard it makes a knee flex the wrong way.

As for RG3... "Quite well"? Really? Fell to an 82 rating. Doubled his rookie INT percentage. Dropped five points off his completion percentage. Those are "facts". "Quite well" is your opinion... and IMO it is not a very well founded one.

@diehardbrownsfan said:

We'll find out soon enough. Training camp in 10 days, then pre-season.

Amen brother...

@emdiggy said:

ok man...i like what you do but you categorized manziel in the same sentence as russell wilson while stating that the threat of manziel running will frustrate a defense. so i guess defenses do that will wilson as well correct? which in your statement makes him a 'running' or OMG 'mobile' QB.

you are dead on about the rest of the brown's evaluation, but to say manziel will be the starter and just hand him the baton is friggin laughable. that's where your credibility goes out the window for me.

just be another resident TMZer or a ESPN/NFL network JF hugger.

if manziel does start and he does great i will blast your name across the internet as the next football analytical genius. if he doesn't start then i'm right, correct?

the thing i do care about is the fact that all you geniuses think that sending the kid in without being properly prepared can have zero chance of him getting hurt. because he didn't get hit in college?

terrell suggs running full force at JF as he tries to extend a play will mean the end of JF as you think you know it. and i'll back my thoughts up with whatever bet you can handle.

@emdiggy said:

LOL, Jamarcus Russell stopped in the NFL for a cup of coffee too, EM. Yes, Manziel got drafted in the first round because of his athletic ability. Whether that athletic ability translates to the NFL- we'll find out soon enough. Most important attributes of an NFL qb? My .02 is reading a defense, unloading the ball quickly, and accurate throws. Mobility is plus, but as Zombo said Peyton Manning will never be considered a Crazy Legs Hirsch, but he excels in those other departments.

@the-gipper said:

Looks like some of the regular boys are gettin' jiggy with Diggy.

(I don't recall one of your video posts getting this much run and debate)

It's just us Johnny hatin' curmudgeons that are taking a wait and see attitude about JF's potential to start game 1 instead of Hoyer.

(I don't recall one of your video posts getting this much run and debate)

@choco said:

Because only the best players are in the NFL right? Stephen Hill says hi while Darrius Heyward-Bey sends his regards as well

Oh yeah....

Great....the lil guy can run. Can he read a defense and throw the ball?

Yet to be seen.

@miktoxic said:

Your comprehension skills leave me shaking my head.

Not once did I mention that Russell Wilson was a 'running QB'

Vick gets blasted by a defender every game…you can probably count on 2 fingers the times Manziel got 'blasted' at A&M

Oh, and lets act like Vince Young didn't have a 31-19 record as an NFL starter winning rookie of the year honors, taking a team to the playoffs that hasn't sniffed it since he left, while saving Jeff Fisher's job TWICE…all for a coach that didn't want him.

But don't let facts get in the way.

@emdiggy said:

Manziel actually reading a defense at A&M? I saw plenty of jump balls to Evans, or scrambling until someone broke wide open. He won't have that luxury in the NFL.

Zombo said:

Because the two greatest QBs in modern football, Manning and Brady, are speed demons?

Z

hard to believe, Z.

@emdiggy said:

The difference btw he and RG3 is that RG3, like Vick, is a reckless runner. Manziel is not 'as' reckless of a runner. He actually runs under more control ala Russell Wilson & Vince Young. They don't take as many shots as the aforementioned guys do. Reading a defense is reading a defense if you're a QB. It doesn't matter if you're an option QB, zone read, spread, pro-style-PA or west coast…there's reads that are involved and it's your job to make decisions & keep the offense on pace. Did he do that at Texas A&M? Yes.

And didn't RG3 lead the Redskins to the playoffs in his 1st season? And despite coming back from injury last year, he played quite well. Those are two facts.

Come on EM- everyone from Bill Parcells on down has concerns about Manziel's potential injury risk. Not as reckless? If Griffin is a 10, Manziel is at least an 8 on that scale. all he needs is one of those ballerina twists at the wrong time with a linebacker coming at him, it's bye-bye ACL.

Not a first year coach, new system situation.

@emdiggy said:

if you think about that statement right there then........wooh. not much of an analyst.

russell wilson is not a 'running' qb. when things break down he runs to the sidelines to get the first down. he's not the 'uh-oh...no wrs open i'm going to run up the middle and all around and go for 50 yards'. manziel will not last a year doing that in the NFL.

vince young, really?

your legitimacy just flew right out the window along with his career..

ask mike vick how he feels getting pummelled into the turf every season and then having to sit on the bench watching his career 'run away' from him like his talent.

@emdiggy said:

The difference btw he and RG3 is that RG3, like Vick, is a reckless runner. Manziel is not 'as' reckless of a runner. He actually runs under more control ala Russell Wilson & Vince Young. They don't take as many shots as the aforementioned guys do. Reading a defense is reading a defense if you're a QB. It doesn't matter if you're an option QB, zone read, spread, pro-style-PA or west coast…there's reads that are involved and it's your job to make decisions & keep the offense on pace. Did he do that at Texas A&M? Yes.

And didn't RG3 lead the Redskins to the playoffs in his 1st season? And despite coming back from injury last year, he played quite well. Those are two facts.

I'm a Griffin fan, but he had an 82 rating and a 3-10 record last year, so I'm not sure that it it is a Fact that he played quite well.

Z

@miktoxic said:

The difference btw he and RG3 is that RG3, like Vick, is a reckless runner. Manziel is not 'as' reckless of a runner. He actually runs under more control ala Russell Wilson & Vince Young. They don't take as many shots as the aforementioned guys do. Reading a defense is reading a defense if you're a QB. It doesn't matter if you're an option QB, zone read, spread, pro-style-PA or west coast…there's reads that are involved and it's your job to make decisions & keep the offense on pace. Did he do that at Texas A&M? Yes.

And didn't RG3 lead the Redskins to the playoffs in his 1st season? And despite coming back from injury last year, he played quite well. Those are two facts.

like i said in my original post if you would have read it is that manziel is not ready to step on the field yet.

yeah sure he might be christ off his crutch when he learns how to read a defense (do it in college much?). i also stated that hoyer has more above the neck than manziel and won't take that extra step that will get manziel killed. yes i said it. get manziel wiped off the ground like a bug on my fuggin windshield.

but let's see how long he lasts because you blowhards think he can just walk-on and be the next rg3. oh btw, how's that working out for him (robert griffin the 3rd) Em?

exactly.

there's your modern football.

@ballpeen said:

I agree EM, but you have to understand many of these guys don't understand modern football and expect some flat footed Johnny Unitas to line up each week.

Because the two greatest QBs in modern football, Manning and Brady, are speed demons?

Z

@emdiggy said:

I agree EM, but you have to understand many of these guys don't understand modern football and expect some flat footed Johnny Unitas to line up each week.

@emdiggy said:

Ditto.

@miktoxic said:

Yes you can because of his running ability. Just the THREAT alone will keep that backside defender at home, thus allowing an extra OL to get to the second level which THEN makes the running game more effective. You don't get that type of dictation with Hoyer. And like I mentioned in the video, Manziel won't see a lot of Man or blitzes because of his threat to run. You see the advantage the offense has by having a guy like that in the pocket?

@cuwoohio said:

yeah but you just can't say manziel is the starter and he can electrify the offense when he doesn't even know how to read defenses yet or know the offensive playbook.

that is ridiculous.

same for manziel.

god help us all if that does happen to either one. i think hoyer as a vet knowing people want to take off QBs' heads might just out do JF in that respect.

just my opinion.

could get JM hurt. The first time Troy Pamperiofirpomumu launches his stupid self at

JM while he's turning to jitterbug away from pressure on one side?

I'd rather go with Hoyer who knows pro defenses and pro quarterbacking. The upside is,

JM can be watching, at least for a while.

Emdiggy - since everybody knows that the Browns play the Steelers in their first and fifth

game of the season, and the stupid stinkin ratbirds the third game....

I think Hoyer is far more ready to start this season than JM has any chance of being ready.

But, whatever the Browns decide, will be the smart thing. This staff is pretty clever all around.

@emdiggy said:

Thanks Califoxwc! The thing about both Hoyer & Manziel is that who would you rather take your 'lumps' with early? The player that has hit his potential or the player with the biggest upside? And it's not a knock on Hoyerbut I see a lot of Frye in him: Good athlete, good kid, competes hard but is limited in his growth potential. IMO, it's better to take those lumps with the rookie that you know will get better with playing time. I also think the bolded is even more of a reason to start Manzielif he can't get out of his own way, you have a capable vet that has been used to playing on 'short notice' so it gives you as a team that 'fallback' option.

If I am Pettine, a defensive minded coach, I want a game manager. Who is more likely to fill that bill? An exciting rookie who is competitiveness defined? Or a vet who won a shoot out for one of his two wins in 2013 and played error free in a defensive struggle for his other win? I take the latter, the vet who has achieved his potential.

Frye is perhaps the one QB comparison for Hoyer that I do not remember seeing yet... and I still do not see it. Charlie, as lovable as he was, was limited between the ears as has been the case with most of our young guns. Hoyer looks like he has "gotten it"... at least he did in 2 games plus a piece of a third. Could it be that he "got it" understudying Brady at NE?

Folks who have flooded this forum, ones who know and love JM, have concerns about how he would handle sitting. Not sure how they'd feel JM would handle benching, but I'd bet "not well".