<![CDATA[Utopia]]>Thought experiment time.

At some point in the future, after we're all dead if it helps, suppose that there's only enough work for maybe 10% of the world's population.

Farming - automated seeding, fertilizing, ploughing, harvesting etc. Maybe a few jobs still need to be done by hand.

Food processing and packaging is mostly done machines now, in the future maybe this gets optimised to be all done by machines.

Public transport is all automated and runs on electric from our ultra efficient solar/wind farms - still need some technicians to maintain them.

Cars are all automated, so no need for taxi drivers?

The main industries are now creative - designing new ways to entertain ourselves, new video games, more plays, films, musicals and the rest. But there's only a small percentage of the population with the talent to do that. Sports, also, only a small fraction.

So in this utopia, what do people do? How do you earn money to go and see films or sports? Or should these be free? Should everyone work 5 hours a week doing the stuff that needs to be done, like working in restaurants & bars, or whatever, and take home full pay?

Do you earn money to pay for food, or food stamps for everyone? And if you pay for food, where does the money go? Robot farmers don't need it!

So, once technological advances have reached this point, what does society look like?

I haven't thought about it anywhere near enough to reach a conclusion either way. I just find the concept that a capitalist paradise leads to technological breakthroughs that potentially enable a communist utopia highly amusing.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/topic/29741/utopiaRSS for NodeThu, 01 Oct 2026 05:50:12 GMTTue, 15 Jul 2014 14:11:37 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Thu, 17 Jul 2014 17:20:27 GMT]]>Yes Steve. We'd be better off living in huts and gathering for food.

Every technological advance can be used for bad. We're clearly better off with the internet, but people use it in harmful ways.

The scientist that invented Chemical X was most likely not the one dumping it in a lake. I wouldn't blame current environmental issues on scientists fucking with the Earth...

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419936https://brownsboard.com/post/419936Thu, 17 Jul 2014 17:20:27 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Thu, 17 Jul 2014 15:23:27 GMT]]>

@westside-steve said:

Of course for those who are extremely concerned about the ill effects of global warming or any other terrible side effects to the environment have scientists to thank.

Progress for the sake of progress is not necessarily a good thing.

Think about it for a minute. Some of you guys are talking about biodome on nearby planets because... Wait for it... Science and scientists have fucked up the earth so badly we can't live on the son of a bitch anymore. That's progress?

WSS

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419912https://brownsboard.com/post/419912Thu, 17 Jul 2014 15:23:27 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Thu, 17 Jul 2014 14:22:25 GMT]]>

@mld-woody said:

They're just scientists though, remember? They're corrupt and just in it for the money. They can't be trusted.

When have I ever said scientists were no good or in it for the money? I have followed astronomy and space explorations since I was a kid.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419900https://brownsboard.com/post/419900Thu, 17 Jul 2014 14:22:25 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Thu, 17 Jul 2014 13:56:26 GMT]]>

@westside-steve said:

Uh....

Tell your what; call me when we get to an inhabitable planet.

WSS

Why, what's wrong with Mars? We'll just need space.

Biodomes bitch

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@diehardbrownsfan said:

I agree. Although Obama has almost killed NASA.

They're just scientists though, remember? They're corrupt and just in it for the money. They can't be trusted.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419877https://brownsboard.com/post/419877Thu, 17 Jul 2014 13:55:24 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Thu, 17 Jul 2014 13:05:38 GMT]]>

@the-cysko-kid said:

Space exploration. Am I the only one who thinks this is our only future?

I agree. Although Obama has almost killed NASA.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419873https://brownsboard.com/post/419873Thu, 17 Jul 2014 13:05:38 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Thu, 17 Jul 2014 12:59:21 GMT]]>

@gftchris said:

No, I'm kinda with you on that. The idea that in 10 years' time people will have set foot on mars is really exciting.

Uh....

Tell your what; call me when we get to an inhabitable planet.

WSS

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419872https://brownsboard.com/post/419872Thu, 17 Jul 2014 12:59:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Thu, 17 Jul 2014 12:46:25 GMT]]>No, I'm kinda with you on that. The idea that in 10 years' time people will have set foot on mars is really exciting.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419870https://brownsboard.com/post/419870Thu, 17 Jul 2014 12:46:25 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Thu, 17 Jul 2014 12:30:33 GMT]]>Space exploration. Am I the only one who thinks this is our only future?

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419869https://brownsboard.com/post/419869Thu, 17 Jul 2014 12:30:33 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:07:48 GMT]]>OK, let me rephrase. When technology has advanced so much that we have driverless cars, self-sustaining farms and full clean energy, and jobs are not really something that everyone has anymore, would has to happen for the world to 'work' - no rioting from boredom or lack of possibilities etc.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419859https://brownsboard.com/post/419859Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:07:48 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Thu, 17 Jul 2014 10:57:34 GMT]]>Tx! I loved Vanilla Sky!

WSS

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@gftchris said:

So people, what does your utopia look like? How do you envisage a perfect world?

this thread makes me think of my favorite movie, Vanilla Sky.

What is happiness to you, David?

The sweet is not as sweet without the bitter.

Utopia is a mindset, People think happiness is an achievement but its a choice.

To go past this becomes scary

You can't organize and fix the world. People are monkeys and sometimes they throw their own shit.

ok, i need sleep.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419851https://brownsboard.com/post/419851Thu, 17 Jul 2014 07:50:40 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Wed, 16 Jul 2014 22:47:03 GMT]]>In a perfect world instead of regional factions fighting over tracts of land we would be just humans striving to expand our influence into the universe. Anyone besides me ever play mass effect? Basically we should be the systems alliance.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419825https://brownsboard.com/post/419825Wed, 16 Jul 2014 22:47:03 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Wed, 16 Jul 2014 20:43:20 GMT]]>

@gftchris said:

So people, what does your utopia look like? How do you envisage a perfect world?

No such thing. We spend our lives chasing the dragon.

Maybe in and opium den or on a morphine drip.

WSS

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419812https://brownsboard.com/post/419812Wed, 16 Jul 2014 20:43:20 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Wed, 16 Jul 2014 15:27:40 GMT]]>As living creatures we are imperfect so there will never be a Utopia.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419779https://brownsboard.com/post/419779Wed, 16 Jul 2014 15:27:40 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Wed, 16 Jul 2014 15:20:55 GMT]]>So people, what does your utopia look like? How do you envisage a perfect world?

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419777https://brownsboard.com/post/419777Wed, 16 Jul 2014 15:20:55 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Wed, 16 Jul 2014 15:20:08 GMT]]>

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@gftchris said:

Then we need to make sure that everybody contributes at some level, I'm sure plenty of people can be trained to be mechanics fixing the future robot cars. Then they work 5 hours a week for $10k, for example, plus food/travel/health/whatever benefits.

Oh I guess you could actually force people to work. I suppose one job that would be pretty universal would be [insert euphemism for Gestapo here] to enforce that.

Oh and to force them to go to school to learn to service the robots.

This is looking better and better as the discussion goes on...

😉

WSS

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419772https://brownsboard.com/post/419772Wed, 16 Jul 2014 15:04:47 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Wed, 16 Jul 2014 14:38:35 GMT]]>Then we need to make sure that everybody contributes at some level, I'm sure plenty of people can be trained to be mechanics fixing the future robot cars. Then they work 5 hours a week for $10k, for example, plus food/travel/health/whatever benefits.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419765https://brownsboard.com/post/419765Wed, 16 Jul 2014 14:38:35 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Wed, 16 Jul 2014 14:31:30 GMT]]>

@gftchris said:

At that point, the value of money is meaningless. Pay them more, tax them more, you basically just keep the money you need and give them a little of the remainder.

sure but I need a number. If you plan to provide luxury for 85% of non working Americans then the percent of tax taken from the 15 that are going to be really really vital to society will have to be huge. And if 15 percent of society provides everything do you think they will be happy making a similar amount to the deadbeats? I sincerely doubt it.

WSS

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419763https://brownsboard.com/post/419763Wed, 16 Jul 2014 14:31:30 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Wed, 16 Jul 2014 14:25:45 GMT]]>

@westside-steve said:

I completely understand what you're doing pal. I'm just tossing some shit back.

Materialism or not traveling the world is something of a luxury that a lot of people would like to indulge in. For instance, we were just looking at a Viking River cruise. Didn't get too deeply into it but close to 4000 bucks and I'm not sure if that's each. I also just got an estimate for swimming pool which comes in around 30 K and doesn't include concrete electric or gas lines.

But if 10 or 15 percent of the people are working to provide all the free shit I'd imagine they are being paid pretty well. How much do you think you would need to tax them to provide luxuries for the 85% of slugs with no visible means of support? That's just something you need to figure out.

WSS

At that point, the value of money is meaningless. Pay them more, tax them more, you basically just keep the money you need and give them a little of the remainder.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419761https://brownsboard.com/post/419761Wed, 16 Jul 2014 14:25:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Wed, 16 Jul 2014 14:15:19 GMT]]>I completely understand what you're doing pal. I'm just tossing some shit back.

Materialism or not traveling the world is something of a luxury that a lot of people would like to indulge in. For instance, we were just looking at a Viking River cruise. Didn't get too deeply into it but close to 4000 bucks and I'm not sure if that's each. I also just got an estimate for swimming pool which comes in around 30 K and doesn't include concrete electric or gas lines.

But if 10 or 15 percent of the people are working to provide all the free shit I'd imagine they are being paid pretty well. How much do you think you would need to tax them to provide luxuries for the 85% of slugs with no visible means of support? That's just something you need to figure out.

WSS

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419757https://brownsboard.com/post/419757Wed, 16 Jul 2014 14:15:19 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Wed, 16 Jul 2014 14:05:55 GMT]]>Perhaps I should put the name of the thread in quotations to make it clear that this isn't really my vision of utopia.

And to be honest, I'm not so materialistic - I prefer travelling, as I said, over buying a new car or bigger house.

But that's the question, if technology makes us all redundant, shouldn't we have all the extra free time to do exactly what we want?

As for who pays - if we ever get to the point where intercontinental travel can be achieved quickly by vehicles using renewable energy then the transportation costs are negated by more efficient energy collecting. Then you just have the hotel and stuff to pay for.

I hope you realise I'm, just spitballing here, thinking about the practicalities of a future that I'll never see.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/419755https://brownsboard.com/post/419755Wed, 16 Jul 2014 14:05:55 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Utopia on Wed, 16 Jul 2014 13:58:31 GMT]]>Where will you get that job chris? We don't need humans anymore remember? And who will pay for your traverage voucher?

Yeah you and I like to spend our money that we earn to buy stuff we like. When we don't work anymore....?

I completely understand that everybody is going to want more than the guy sitting next to them.

just because you think it would be utopia doesnt change human nature.

sure everybody loves free shit but everybody also wants to be better then the next guy. Nobody wants to be equals.

WSS

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