@comeonman said:

Dude, you're wasting your time and the argument has gone on and on and on. Nothing new is being said about either QB. Hoyer looked good for the short time he has started. Manziel was a beast in college and I think he will be very exciting to watch at the pro level. I also believe he is the future at QB, not Hoyer. With that being said, we can wait a little longer to see how it plays out, or we can continue to argue about it until we are blue in the face.

Fair enough.

@bangobango said:

Sick burn, man.

Thank you???

@topdawg31 said:

not sure if anyone mentioned this or not but JF in an interview today said he is not ready for the regular season yet but he will be by opening day. Probably a good reason as to why he did not get the start Monday night.

Reason like he is still behind? Yup...

Just posted it in another thread...

@tour2ma said:

Manziel: 'I'm not ready for Pittsburgh'

http://www.wkyc.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2014/08/16/manziel-im-not-ready-for-pittsburgh/14162577/

"That's not saying I'm not ready or I won't be ready. I don't want that taken out of context. It's just right now in my second preseason game, I'm not ready to go out and start week one because there's a lot of time left until that point."

Lot of time? Now until Tuesday morning is "a lot of time"?

@miktoxic said:

... my current girl a c word...

You must be rich....

x1k.

@bangobango said:

Because I think Johnny can win two regular season games?

That's all Hoyer has accomplished in his entire time in the NFL. That is what everyone keeps pointing to when I ask what Hoyer has done that Manziel has not. Is it not?

@bangobango said:

yep, i'm guilty of that. i've called him midget. hell i called my grandmother an old witch, my current girl a c word, my best friend a flaming fuck face..................so?

who am i to tell other BROWNS fans what to think? there's a big difference between a long-time member of this board and someone who just joined 3 days ago just to instigate trouble (you). there's also a difference between a browns fan and a ___________(insert name) fan. do i agree with everything everybody says on here? no. do they agree with everything i say? hell no. but after being here awhile you gain respect. even some of the most hardcore JF fans have gained my respect and have stuck around.

stay on your current course and i give you about another 24 hours.

@hoorta said:

Because I think Johnny can win two regular season games?

That's all Hoyer has accomplished in his entire time in the NFL. That is what everyone keeps pointing to when I ask what Hoyer has done that Manziel has not. Is it not?

@bangobango said:

You're hopelessly blinded by Manziel mania. And You're bordering on being a troll.

@tour2ma said:

Sick burn, man.

@hoorta said:

Yeah, and you can't name one time Hoyer was great, EVER. Not in college, not in pros, not EVER. Let Johnny start three games and he will pass anything Hoyer has ever accomplished in his six years in the NFL.

And it's funny that you are crediting Hoyer with a win when he blew out his ACL so early in that third game. That's how pathetic his resume is, you have to basically make crap up for him to make it sound better.

@miktoxic said:

You are so full of shit. I've seen you call him a midget on another thread, and the post right under yours calls him "little guy" and that same poster usually calls him "mini-me." Then another poster on this thread calls him "Johnny Goofball." Why aren't you calling these guys out like you do anybody that says anything about Hoyer?

@miktoxic said:

Yup, the Nation will be tuning in to see Manziel play.

@bangobango said:

Excuses? That is all you guys do for Hoyer!

Nobody has to make excuses for Johnny. Johnny was the first freshman in history to win the heisman. He owns the three highest yards per game in the history of the SEC. He was drafted in the first round of the draft. Now, let's hear your excuses for why Hoyer's resume doesn't stack up at all.

Have to bring up how great Manziel was in COLLEGE again? Still haven't figured out we're not impressed? Archie Griffin- TWO Heismans, Hoyer's mentor, Tom Brady was a nobody in COLLEGE if you remember. It's like talking to a wall. Here's Hoyer's resume. Browns won all three games he started in, had nice 4th quarter drive to win on the road against the Vikings. Manziel's regular season resume? Well it doesn't exist.

However- the Manzealots already have him in the HOF, based on his college performance.

All the JF thumpers can say about Hoyer is- career backup. Well Bango, us oldsters saw something in that three game stretch that says "maybe not". We want to see more. If Brian comes out and stinks up the place now that teams have tape on him, you'll get your wish to see Manziel soon enough. Without any disagreement from us.

@miktoxic said:

i hear you and i agree.

he's still young. i can't fault the kid for doing what he wants when football isn't in the picture, hell move to vegas in the off-season and get smashed up every night, just don't be an embarrassment to the browns org. BUT when the bell rings on the season you gotta be all about the game. not saying you can't go out once in a while but you can't be TMZ fodder every time you leave the facilities.

offseason hang with drake.

during the season hang with joe thomas.

that should do it.

The Lil guy needs to learn he doesn't need to win all by himself

@bangobango said:

You mean the exact same play Hoyer ran and threw to the fb and the fb dropped?

Yeah, watch Johnny in context. On first and ten, he throws that ball. When it's third or fourth down and he knows he damn well better make sure he gets the first, he will keep it every time. Again, this is because Johnny understands the game better than any player I've ever seen at his age.

I'm sure compared to your understanding of the game JM's understanding must take on mythic proportions.

@wudupdawg said:

Manziel MAY be the best thing that has happened to this program in who knows when. As an Aggie fan and fan of Manziel, I had always said that he would be fine as long as he didn't get drafted by the Browns. If he can be successful in Cleveland, it just adds to the legend of JFF.

I'll bite... why as long as he was not drafted by the Browns?

I can relate to Browns fans, I have been and Aggie fan my whole life, and had to endure the dark ages of mediocrity for well over a decade. I hope that you guys can experience the same success we had with JFF ...

I also follow the Ags since my daughter and my money once went there, yet the team success you refer to during the Manziel era eludes me. Are you referring to their 2nd place finish in the West Division in 2012?

@wudupdawg said:

I actually like Hoyer and from what I have seen, I think that if he were named the starter the Browns would be just fine, but I don't think they can be an elite team with Hoyer. I think Hoyer could pull out a winning season for sure, but if the Browns have the defense (which JF did not have that luxury at A&M), I think the Browns can be a good team with Hoyer and a GREAT team if JF progresses and learns the offense. Johnny WILL put up the numbers and will score lots of points.

First, regardless of the starter at QB we are not going to leap to "elite" status in 2014. What we can do is build to it

Put up numbers even if JM does not "progress"? Does not "learn the offense"? Why does a team with a great Defense need "a lot of points"?

Your arguments are inconsistent.

His passion and fire are what sets him apart more than anything, it's the refusal to lose and the burning desire to win. I've seen it time and again, not to gush or anything but it's the truth, he simply wills his team to victory. He gets his teammates fired up around him, not something I have seen from Hoyer. Not that Hoyer doesn't want to win or isn't a competitor, but I think he is missing that contagious fire that can infect the rest of the team (in a positive way).

I understand and have seen the excitement factor, but you are speaking of past behaviors in a situation where JM was the clear leader/ star of the team. Passion without NFL level accomplishment doesn't cut it at this level. It does not inspire.

I have no doubt JF will be a good player, if he stays healthy, but I am not sitting here saying he should start game 1. The coaches are in the best position to make that call, and I defer to the coaches. I won't be on here bashing Hoyer for every little flaw, and know the JF's time will come. It's just hard to ignore the difference in upside with these two players. Hoyer may be more ready to start game 1 but it won't be long before JF gets a firm grasp on the offense and takes over before the end of the season (in my opinion).

We all hope the grasp comes sometime during the season. As for "taking over" when that occurs... that will depend on the success of the team to that point.

What I "hate" is the fact that everyone is so concerned about what he does in his free time...

The concern has dropped since the free time has disappeared.

I don't think it's a rigged competition, that's ridiculous, anyone with common sense will tell you that the QB who is most prepared and gives them the best chance to win will play. That doesn't always mean the best QB will win the job, it may come down to who gels better with the offense and who has a better understanding of the offense will play, regardless of athletic ability and talent. Looking forward to the soap opera they call the Browns 2014 season.

Very revealing sentence there, since the best QB is the one who best executes the offense.

See you around the soap box...

he's still young. i can't fault the kid for doing what he wants when football isn't in the picture, hell move to vegas in the off-season and get smashed up every night, just don't be an embarrassment to the browns org. BUT when the bell rings on the season you gotta be all about the game. not saying you can't go out once in a while but you can't be TMZ fodder every time you leave the facilities.

offseason hang with drake.

during the season hang with joe thomas.

that should do it.

@miktoxic said:

Milk, I've been a die hard Browns fan for over fifty years. I back the franchise 100% but not necessarily the individual. Manziel was handed millions of dollars to play for the team I've supported for decades. When I see him posting selfies in a bathroom with a $100 bill rolled up, I don't get the impression it's used for sipping a juice box or a frosty glass of Nestle's Quick. That's for one reason only and I don't think I have to tell what that is. That's a BIG red flag for me. My point is, he has done absolutely nothing for the franchise to promote himself as "Johnny Football" but has done plenty to be referred to in my mind as Johnny Goofball. You are correct that this Monday will be the most watched pre season game of all time! I just hope the kid can get his priorities together cause I want him to succeed also.

@wudupdawg said:

I actually like Hoyer and from what I have seen, I think that if he were named the starter the Browns would be just fine, but I don't think they can be an elite team with Hoyer. I think Hoyer could pull out a winning season for sure, but if the Browns have the defense (which JF did not have that luxury at A&M), I think the Browns can be a good team with Hoyer and a GREAT team if JF progresses and learns the offense. Johnny WILL put up the numbers and will score lots of points. His passion and fire are what sets him apart more than anything, it's the refusal to lose and the burning desire to win. I've seen it time and again, not to gush or anything but it's the truth, he simply wills his team to victory. He gets his teammates fired up around him, not something I have seen from Hoyer. Not that Hoyer doesn't want to win or isn't a competitor, but I think he is missing that contagious fire that can infect the rest of the team (in a positive way). I have no doubt JF will be a good player, if he stays healthy, but I am not sitting here saying he should start game 1. The coaches are in the best position to make that call, and I defer to the coaches. I won't be on here bashing Hoyer for every little flaw, and know the JF's time will come. It's just hard to ignore the difference in upside with these two players. Hoyer may be more ready to start game 1 but it won't be long before JF gets a firm grasp on the offense and takes over before the end of the season (in my opinion). What I "hate" is the fact that everyone is so concerned about what he does in his free time, which is in no way any different than a lot of pro football players, you just don't hear about it. There is a media obsession with dragging this kid through the mud, and criticizing EVERY move he makes. Use some common sense, he isn't any different than the rest of them, he is just under the microscope. This happens every offseason, and then when fall camp starts you don't hear a peep out of them because he is all business when it comes to football. His teammates would tell you he is one of the hardest workers out there and motivates everyone around him.

I don't think it's a rigged competition, that's ridiculous, anyone with common sense will tell you that the QB who is most prepared and gives them the best chance to win will play. That doesn't always mean the best QB will win the job, it may come down to who gels better with the offense and who has a better understanding of the offense will play, regardless of athletic ability and talent. Looking forward to the soap opera they call the Browns 2014 season.

@darkside5 said:

nothing is set in stone. a lot rests on this monday night's game.

i wouldn't count anyone out right now. people are predicting this washington vs. cleveland preseason game to be the most watched preseason game EVER. if it weren't for manziel i'm sure that wouldn't be the case. is that a reason to love manziel? no. do you back him as a browns fan? hell yes. but as said before, i back everyone on this team from the ball scrubbers to the owner.

@miktoxic said:

I guess I am young and relentless, lol! Although I am an Aggie, born and raised, I actually moved to College Station from Dayton, OH, where I spent a lot of my young teenage years, so I have been a Browns fan before I moved to Texas (not a big fan, but to some degree), so now I have something in common with my old friends in Ohio. So I am somewhere in between Young and Relentless and General Hospital