@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

With 20/20 hindsight, I wouldn't have taken that trade. I would have done exactly what Farmer did, wait until Bortles got drafted, then trade back for a future first.

What I wouldn't have done is I wouldn't have taken Manziel at #22 (or any QB, for that matter). I would have waited until the third to take Savage, let Hoyer fly this season, and then (depending on the draft pick position next year) taken the best QB prospect in the draft next year.

That's where I think we messed up.

Totally agree. But, as a fan, I'm forced to like what we have. So I'm trying to forget what could've been in numerous scenarios. Otherwise it's just not fun for me.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

aren't we all. you were the bortles guy on this board though, so......

just love the geno smith quote.

sigh.......

@thenew23 said:

With 20/20 hindsight, I wouldn't have taken that trade. I would have done exactly what Farmer did, wait until Bortles got drafted, then trade back for a future first.

What I wouldn't have done is I wouldn't have taken Manziel at #22 (or any QB, for that matter). I would have waited until the third to take Savage, let Hoyer fly this season, and then (depending on the draft pick position next year) taken the best QB prospect in the draft next year.

That's where I think we messed up.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

At this point, with perfect 20/20 hindsight, would you make the trade the Rams wanted to make for the #2 pick... speculating it was both 1sts and a 2nd or 3rd ... As it turns out...

Gilbert and Manziel + Buffalo's #1 next year + add in (Bitonio, Kirksey, and/or West or our next year's 2nd and/or 3rd) + more (including Buffalo's #4 next year) we would need to make the deal happen

for

Blake Bortles

I'm not so sure. 3 weeks into preseason isn't enough to look back and wish we had given up all that talent for a guy who "might" be great. And if you remember, I was just as high on Bortles as anybody during the draft.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I think James Davis can be a great RB in the league, but we'll just have to see. As for Harrison, he's sticking around no matter what we say.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Hoyer will suck, Thigpen will do well but get injured, Young will prove to be serviceable but get injured, Hoyer will come back in and suck, and then Alex Tanney will get the Week 17 start.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I don't like Hoyer because he's not good. But for some reason he's the heir apparent to everyone.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Or could just be that Gipson sticks so much that a practice squad player is challenging for the starting job.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Gipson is also garbage. He wouldn't start for any other team in the NFL. According to NFL.com, he was the 163rd best defensive back in 2012. A real gem.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I wouldn't be surprised to see Geno Smith have a Donovan McNabb-esque career. Nor will I be surprised if EJ Manuel turns out to become a solid franchise QB a la Daunte Culpepper. Same goes for Tyler Wilson.

@d-bone said:

And i recall him saying we're probably getting Manziel around that time.

We have our own board Soupslayer!

@tour2ma said:

In my opinion, I believe Farmer had his eye on Bortles all along but was never given the go-ahead to move up and get him.

Haslam can say what he wants about not being involved in the draft, but Loggains blew the lid off when he said this:

"When I got that text, I forwarded it to the owner and to the head coach (Mike Pettine). I'm like, 'This guy wants to be here. He wants to be part of it.' As soon as that happened, Mr. Haslam said, 'Pull the trigger. We're trading up to go get this guy.'"

If I had to guess, I would say that Farmer had his eye on Bortles throughout the entire pre-draft process. He played up to the Manziel hype and downplayed the interest in Bortles so as not to show his hand. When Bortles was taken by Jacksonville, immediately before our pick, Farmer instantly decided to move down, acquire ammunition in next year's draft, and then build a solid defense and offensive line. He would have taken Tom Savage in the third or fourth and let him learn behind Hoyer and given Hoyer a true tryout period, then taken Jameis, Hundley, or Mariota next year at the top of the draft.

Meanwhile, this entire time, Haslam wanted Manziel. Farmer had talked Haslam down, but this nonsense with the text got Jimmy all riled up and forced Farmer to make an unwanted trade.

Now, Cleveland is in a bad spot. Farmer isn't going to be allowed to take the top-rated prospect in next year's draft because the organization will look silly. Instead of possibly having two top-10 picks in next year's draft and clear holes to be addressed, Cleveland will have a muddled QB situation and a bunch of excuses for keeping underperforming skill players...same as always.

@tour2ma said:

I'd forgotten that... makes Bortles at #4 a plausible scenario, but...

The QB of interest could have also been JM. Farmer also said that they'd done their homework and had a good sense of who was going when.

We may have to wait for Ray's memoir...

Yep....plausible is as good as we'll ever get from him......he'll never tell us.....

Though....IF JF was his guy, then he was a hell of a gambler to just let him roll past the Cowboys.....

@mudfly said:

Prior to the draft, Farmer said there was "a" quarterback that he was interested in.....but then declined to say he if would take him at 4.....

Gotta believe, with as desperate as we are for a QB, that he wouldn't pass up the chance to grab "the one" at #8....right?

So, personally I think he wanted Bortles at 4 and then, when he got picked, they went to plan B........

I'd forgotten that... makes Bortles at #4 a plausible scenario, but...

The QB of interest could have also been JM. Farmer also said that they'd done their homework and had a good sense of who was going when.

We may have to wait for Ray's memoir...

Gotta believe, with as desperate as we are for a QB, that he wouldn't pass up the chance to grab "the one" at #8....right?

So, personally I think he wanted Bortles at 4 and then, when he got picked, they went to plan B........

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

We really, really missed the boat on getting a franchise quarterback.

Tad premature... but so far so good...

Had to chuckle at the accuracy of the non-QB portions of your draft/ FA analysis... OG... CB... RT... No surprise that the pieces obtained are different, but the needs were on the mark.

Now maybe we just need that RT... and a couple true, 3-4 OLBs...

@thenew23 said:

I was high on Bortles too, but if I remember correctly he was drafted before we picked. Sort of prompted the trade down I'm sure.

Have we ever heard anything to indicate the FO was poised to take Bortles at #4?

@canton-mike said:

To be fair, I've been in Manziel's corner since we drafted him, so I could see where you were coming from.

I'm just a fan of Roethlisberger's combination of size and style of play, personally. That's why I was really big on Bortles.

Manziel at least has the same improvisational skills, just in a much smaller package. But, straight up, I'd take Bortles over Manziel any day of the week.

@canton-mike said:

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Is this a joke?

@jcam222 said:

Mike overall I recall TCPO being big time into Bortles not Johnny.

Hey guys...I stand corrected & my apologies to TCPO.

Mike

@thenew23 said:

I was high on Bortles too, but if I remember correctly he was drafted before we picked. Sort of prompted the trade down I'm sure.

I didn't realize he was taken first overall.

My mistake.

@canton-mike said:

Wait a minute! You were all about Johnny until he wasn't made the starter after 2 damn exhibition games. Are you KIDDING? I sure hope so.

Mike

@thenew23 said:

How? He was taken before we picked?

Did I miss something here?

Getting an OG to start opposite Greco should help shore up our line. Lauvao and Pinkston are decent enough fillers, but neither are starter worthy.

Then in FA, we go for Browner from Seattle. Seattle is going to have to shell out big money to keep Okung and Thomas, Browner will probably be a cap casualty.

We hand the reigns to Hoyer and let Bortles wait in the wings. Even if Hoyer proves to be unsuccessful, he'll be a great mentor for Bortles.

If both QB's suck, we'll be in position and have some firepower to grab Famous Jameis."

"We/re missing key components but have a good foundation built. Add a franchise QB (please, after today, let it be Bortles), add a RT who doesn't suck hog, get an ILB who can step up and lay some lumber, and get a #2 CB and we'll be set. I think you'll be surprised at how much better our receivers play when we get a good QB in there. "

"As I've been saying all year, I'm a big fan of Bortles. Moreso than Manziel. I just want to see a fair and rational argument debunking Manziel, not the same bullshit everybody throws around: "Oh, he's a dick and I don't want his weasel face on my team." You say that you're against the premature Manziel love, yet you're spewing premature Manziel hate just as often. Same story, just opposite ends of the Personally, I'd rather see us take Bortles for a multitude of a reasons, but that is neither here nor there.

"

"Best case- Bortles

Worst case- anyone else"

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

We really, really missed the boat on getting a franchise quarterback.

How? He was taken before we picked?

@canton-mike said:

Wait a minute! You were all about Johnny until he wasn't made the starter after 2 damn exhibition games. Are you KIDDING? I sure hope so.

Mike

Is this a joke?