@hoorta said:

Yup, MHO- you have to differentiate between "lousy player" (Jamarcus Russell & Ryan Leaf) busts, and "injury" busts.

Yup... two words... Greg Cook.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-top-ten/09000d5d807434bc/Top-Ten-One-Shot-Wonders-Greg-Cook

@westside-steve said:

my Couch jersey is still hanging in my closet..14 years later i still have it...

Biggest mistake we ever made was resigning him to a new contract after it was apparent he was a pussy.

@tiamat63 said:

Holcomb QBd the team in the playoffs, but Couch was the guy that QBd them most of that season. So, no, it was Couch mainly, not Holcomb.

@mudfly said:

Yup, MHO- you have to differentiate between "lousy player" (Jamarcus Russell & Ryan Leaf) busts, and "injury" busts. KI-Jana Carter is the prime example there.The Browns Lawyer Tillman comes to mind. Who knows how good Knievel Winslow could have been if he hadn't been trying to do wheelies on a crotch rocket? Had a semi-decent career playing on a shot knee.. RG Knee is one ACL away from joining that list. I think Sam Bradford is knocking on the door of the Club too.

@clevfan4life said:

Tim Couch beat the Ravens and Steelers when those defense's were in their prime. With a terrible terribl terrible farce of an offensive line. I will always have a soft spot for Tim. Being in Cleveland really did ruin his career.

+1

WSS

@clevfan4life said:

Being in Cleveland really did ruin his career.

Yeah... and it was not just a '99 effort, but a continuous one.

We did not draft a single O-lineman in '99, '00 or '01.

In '02 we spent a 7th round pick on OT, Joaquin Gonzalez, to celebrate the beginning of the end of the Couch era...

@baconhound said:

Players do get hurt and can be put into impossible situations(like couch or C. Brown) and can ultimately be considered busts.....Ill agree to that.......and I can consider Couch a bust, because he was never great.....I just can't say he was the wrong pick. I think it's more obvious that we were the wrong team.

But a "bust" is not necessarily the fault of the GM or where a player got picked. Nor does it mean they were bad picks or bad players. No one can predict when an injury will happen and it certainly isnt the GM's fault when it does.....and when your team completely sucks, it's hard to look good, even if you are good......

Maybe if the Browns picked McNabb, we would be discussing how terrible(and fragile) he was and why didnt we picked Couch????......you never know.....

@baconhound said:

That is the coaches tape but when Gilbert was getting beaten up by the media Pettine didn't say, "wait guys let's be fair Gilbert is solid you're just nitpicking". Pettine said, and I'm paraphrasing, "the guys in the room are getting on him, it's not often rookie DBs play well".

Ah... so it's "your eye test... plus stuff you read... even if the stuff read does not support the eye test in its entirety".

Got it... thanks...

@poeticg said:

Tim Couch got the Browns to the playoffs, with the team that was around him I consider that a victory.

Are you sure you don't mean Kelly Holcomb?

@baconhound said:

As to blind faith- well, we're Browns fans, and unlike Cubs fans, there's still some of us alive who can remember that last time the Browns won a Championship. Like Eyore, "woe is us, we're never going to be any good." I happen to disagree.

MHO- It's beyond totally absurd to start calling guys 'BUSTS" after three games. Under performing compared to draft status? OK, but not every first round pick comes right in and proceeds to set the league on fire. Since I had some time to think about it- I looked up these "BUSTS" for you. First year QBRs 56, 55, 30. You going to cut them all? Respectively- those are the ratings for Troy Aikman, John Elway, and Terry Bradshaw.

@miktoxic said:

Not saying he is a horrible person or that he was put in a good situation but you draft a QB #1 and he ends up with Tim Couch's resume he's a bust.

@baconhound said:

and you're a dick.

if couch would have had even a zintilla of an offensive line who knows how good he could of been. talk about bad drafting around a player.

@tour2ma said:

That is the coaches tape but when Gilbert was getting beaten up by the media Pettine didn't say, "wait guys let's be fair Gilbert is solid you're just nitpicking". Pettine said, and I'm paraphrasing, "the guys in the room are getting on him, it's not often rookie DBs play well". Forgetting Haden, Peterson, Flowers to name a couple recents.

And other top 10 picks Champ Bailey, Charles Woodson.

@hoorta said:

Isn't that what sports fans do? Pro sports is a constant evaluation by fans and media alike. That's why we are on an internet forum talking about a team on a bye week.

For better or worse there seem to be two types of Browns fans, half-empty and half-full. Don't need a crystal ball to tell where I fall but the thing that strikes me as funny as this organization as a whole has been pathetic for the vast majority of 15 years and there still is a lot of blind faith.

@baconhound said:

A pass is completed and you watch the coverage. Typically if it's significant they replay it. Add to that he's lined up improperly. His coach has mentioned his failures.

And the coverage when the ball is not thrown to his assigned man or area?

@the-gipper said:

Couch was a bust

@tour2ma said:

A pass is completed and you watch the coverage. Typically if it's significant they replay it. Add to that he's lined up improperly. His coach has mentioned his failures.

@the-gipper said:

I don't know about you, but I will take playoff appearances over Pro Bowl appearances.

Impact on team reaching post season...

QB or TE... TE or QB... QB or TE...

I just can't decide...

@mudfly said:

Im one of those folks who always kind of felt bad for Couch.......always thought he just got his ass pounded into the dirt and didnt stand a chance with the team we had........maybe could have been pretty good on a better team......but, we will never know....

A lot of us felt the same way, Mud.

Only bigger question (or suffering) of any QB I have followed was David Carr.

Zombo said:

Sure, a combination of torn labrum and torn rotator cuff curtailed his career. And those were not self inflicted by stupid behavior, a la K2.