@manzier said:

If I could give you a "plus 6" for this post, I would! Thank you.

What has been done thus far by THIS organization borders on miraculous. I'm enjoyin' the ride!!

Mike

@the-gipper said:

That would be my point too. These are NOT the same old Browns in terms of organization, because they are all gone. They screwed up and got fired. Too few understand that is all you can do. Fire and hire till it get's fixed. So, the Browns that lost for 12 years are all gone now. New owner and new coach and new GM. They have only been in place a few months and have made a huge& positive change in the mentality and the quality of personnel. They also just completed what looks like our best draft in decades. Only time will tell though. To call JFF or Gilbert a bust after 3 games is just stupid. Really really stupid.

And whining and crying about people that were fired years ago is pointless. That is what babies and people who dont know how to move forward do. It's time to move forward. These are competent people we have in place right now. Support them, instead of bitching. It's only been a few months. Give them an opportunity, instead of blaming them for past transgressions. Love the team you have now, instead of hating what they were last year(or before). Enjoy ALL the improvements, instead of dwelling on a few negatives.

In his first 6 months Farmer has brought in Hawkins, Kirksey, Bitonio, Tate, Whitner, Dansby, Crowell, Gabriel, Gilbert, Austin, West & Manziel - all starters or vast improvements to overall team depth. Plus, he's added some back ups and taxi squad players that will help us later. And you think he isnt doing the job? Do you have someone better in mind? Because I'd say you're crazy if you think we should move past Farmer. And if you dont, why are you whining?

@walterwhite said:

That wasn't coaching Walter- Three missed assignments- that weren't on coaching. Gabriel falls down on what should have been a walk into the endzone No points on that drive -7. Cundiff misses a couple of FGs on a bad snap and a missed block. -6. We make those plays, it doesn't matter your favorite new whipping boy Joe Haden lets Smith get behind him.

@walterwhite said:

The problem is that it is never the same people making those choices. Of those picks I outlined, there were made by like 4 different GMs. A fired GM cannot re-evalute...he is fired.

@hoorta said:

Right. I get sick of the "who we should've drafted' posts.

I mean really, we fired our GM (again), and will continue to until we start getting it right. You make a mistake, and then you move on...

Who's supposed to "learn from their mistakes?" The fans...? We didn't make any mistakes...

Playing the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" game is just torture... and more importantly, it annoys me...

@hoorta said:

Don't just start rattling off names if you think no one is going to check up on you.

There are places you can check shit on the internet?

Who'd a thunk it?

@gftchris said:

Well said!

Mike

@walterwhite said:

Does the saints game not count as being able to close a game out? Of course, we could be 3-0, but a couple of years ago this team would be 0-3, no questions. It's unfair to expect the team to be instantly able to close out every single close game, regardless of the opposition, but when you consider it's against two teams that have such a winning mentality - the type we're trying to build, it becomes at least a little more understandable. If we're failing to close out against Jacksonville, TB, and the like then there's more cause for concern.

@gftchris said:

The Browns always play up or down to the competition. We never have "soft" or "easy" games.

We blew the Ravens game on coaching and boneheaded moves.

I will not believe in this team until they can start closing and prove themselves but you did make valid points.

@walterwhite said:

1. This was a three game stretch that represented the biggest test of the year for the team, one which many people - yourself included, if I remember rightly - had us losing, with JFF starting in Tennessee to rescue the season. As it stands, we've been in position to win every game, in spite of some shoddy secondary play, and we're at 1-2, looking at a very soft run of games with a very real chance of being 5-5 by the time we get our Pro-Bowl receiver back. You wouldn't have taken that at the start of the season?

2. Yes, past drafts hurt us. Nothing we can do about that now. This regime has something like 23 players on the roster that weren't here last year, including 12 rookies. Give the team time to grow, time to adjust to league in the case of the rookies and I'm sure we'll start to see the rewards. Bitonio is already there, Kirskey's looking like a very good find in the 3rd round, West and Crowell have been beasts. Manziel is sitting and learning, so basically gets a pass until a year or two down the line. The only one that hasn't lit up the league is Gilbert. 4/6 have hit the ground running. With Desir having always been a huge project, call it 4/5.

Gilbert has been pretty bad so far, but 3 games in is ridiculously early to call him a bust, even for a Browns fan. Let's revisit at the end of the year, maybe next year. He apparently has exactly the skillset Pettine is looking for, Farmer was on board with it, and he's not the starter - hell, he only played something like 16% of snaps at the weekend. Assuming Pettine stays, I'm happy giving Gilbert a bit of time, and very happy for Farmer to have another crack at the draft with another 2 first rounders.

@5150k9 said:

1. The only stat that matters is wins and losses and we blew 2 golden opportunities that good teams take advantage of.

2. Things of the past do effect us, such as awful drafts and trade down decisions.

@5150k9 said:

The only reason I did that reply is it sort of got me honked off. There were so many "what ifs" in the original post- I can say with near certainty some of them had about as much chance of happening as Browns HQ getting hit by an asteroid draft day. Plus denigrating the very few really good picks the Browns managed to get right.

Oh, you can drive yourself nuts playing the hindsight game- and I've been guilty of it myself, replying to posts as to why it's been virtually unabated suckage since 1999. I'll only name the screw up that hurts me the worst- I was all on board for this guy- and we passed him up. Wanted to play for the Browns too. He'll eventually make the HOF- his name is Ladanian Tomlinson.

@hoorta said:

the only reason i was not myself was under member info it says female so...........

hey look so does walter's!

@walterwhite said:

what the hell?. ok name me 6 first round draft picks that this regime has drafted?

@hoorta said:

Someone just got "OWNED"!!! For christ sake, we all are Browns Fans. Yes, we have had a lot of let downs since 1999, but for God Sake can we stop bitching about the past, and look Forward. We are in the middle of every offensive stat this season, something we haven't seen in like forever. This team has a different attitude and I for 1 feel good. I don't post much, I love this site to read your takes and breakdowns. But, it does get old seeing the bitching about stuff that has happened in the past and no longer effects our beloved BROWNS. Sorry for the rant.

@the-gipper said:

Amen!!!! Nuff Said!!!

@opal312 said:

Don't just start rattling off names if you think no one is going to check up on you. RE: 2006, first off, Hawk and Davis were already off the board when the Browns drafted- or did your ESP tell you to trade up to get one of them too? Secondly, the Browns very unwisely traded with the Ravens allowing them to take Haloti Ngata.BTW- at the time that was considered a reach by the Ravens to take a NT that high. Ooh- you forgot about Cromartie and Tamba Hali- who were on the board.

2007 You can bite me regarding Joe Thomas. A multi time Pro Bowl LT trumps anyone else on that list. Peterson missed time with a blown out knee, may be spending more time in jail, and the Vikings haven't been to the Super Bowl even with him. The humongous mistake was trading up to take "It's a sin if they draft Quinn". My quote from that draft. That little detail cost us Chris Johnson in 2008.

2009 Mack's been to the Pro Bowl, started every game, and the others have all missed significant time due to injury. BTW, Crabtree was off the board when the Browns drafted, Strike 2, your 20\20 hind sight seems to be off kilter. The little detail you seemed to miss was in the second round, the Browns took Mohammed Massivedrop instead of LeSean McCoy.

2010 Haden has been to the Pro Bowl, and it would have been twice if he hadn't gotten busted for alderal. Pouncey? Strike three pal. you think we were going to draft a center when we already had a Pro Bowl center on the roster?

@miktoxic said:

the only one we blew on your list was the kam wimberly 2006.

all the rest i'd say we made the right choices.

how can you question thomas, mack or haden? (unless you're joking).

He needs to go to remedial draft history school, and learn himself up.

Good freakin gravy, stop the bitching.

@opal312 said:

the only one we blew on your list was the kam wimberly 2006.

all the rest i'd say we made the right choices.

how can you question thomas, mack or haden? (unless you're joking).

@miktoxic said:

Were losers. We are 0-2 in the division and in dead last.

We still can't beat Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

So sick and fucking tired of losing and dealing with "Oh chill out Moral Victory douchebag fucking pussies"

Can't we just fucking burry these god damn teams for once.

@walterwhite said:

You contribute absolutely nothing but dry empty critiques to this board.

If true, which it is not, it would still mean I contribute something.

And buffoon? Time to step up your game, son...