@osiris said:

Would be better if he called an audible to a passing play.

Agree... but how often does he have that option?

@tour2ma said:

Exactly... and Clefan... the box counts are now in the weekly line grades.I wish I had started rigorously recording the counts earlier when Mack was still at Center. I'd bet there has been fairly little shift to more in the box as weeks passed. In Week 3's game vs. BLT I started noting high loadings, but almost nothing noted in Weeks 5 and 6. I'm not seeing a lot of do or don't debate... more a debate of how high. He has been calling some audibles... mostly it appears he changes the side at which we run.The added O-lineman is interesting. Another option would be the Colt unbalanced line.

Would be better if he called an audible to a passing play.

@bbedward said:

Yes, if you look back at the footage that wasn't the case like everybody would like you to believe.

Looking back on Jax, on almost all (at least 20) of Hoyers incompletions they sent 4. Hardly stacking the box making Hoyers arm beat you.

Stockton said they loaded the box maybe 100 times because Hoyer cant throw citing a basement blog post so people are starting to believe it

Exactly... and Clefan... the box counts are now in the weekly line grades.

I wish I had started rigorously recording the counts earlier when Mack was still at Center. I'd bet there has been fairly little shift to more in the box as weeks passed.

In Week 3's game vs. BLT I started noting high loadings, but almost nothing noted in Weeks 5 and 6.

@clevfan4life said:

So we've been getting our run stuffed by teams only using their front 7. And people think we don't need to draft OL?

I'm not seeing a lot of do or don't debate... more a debate of how high.

@osiris said:

Yep Hoyer needs to show that he will punish defenses that stack the box by calling audibles. We know he is smart enough to recognize and adjust to defenses, so I wonder why we aren't seeing more of this.

I'm wondering if a possible solution to our running game problem is if we should put a lineman instead of the third offset tight end when we run in the formation below (not sure if this is what we run exactly but I know we do the double tight-end on one side thing). Put an athletic lineman there on the edge and maybe we can finally start sealing it again for the outside runs:

He has been calling some audibles... mostly it appears he changes the side at which we run.

The added O-lineman is interesting. Another option would be the Colt unbalanced line.

@richiswhere said:

Yep Hoyer needs to show that he will punish defenses that stack the box by calling audibles. We know he is smart enough to recognize and adjust to defenses, so I wonder why we aren't seeing more of this.

I'm wondering if a possible solution to our running game problem is if we should put a lineman instead of the third offset tight end when we run in the formation below (not sure if this is what we run exactly but I know we do the double tight-end on one side thing). Put an athletic lineman there on the edge and maybe we can finally start sealing it again for the outside runs:

@thaak said:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/10/cleveland_browns_mike_pettine_14.html

You just heard it here first

@clevfan4life said:

So Tour...ur saying that oak and jax "did not" put more than 7 guys in the box and they still stuffed us that hard?

Looking back on Jax, on almost all (at least 20) of Hoyers incompletions they sent 4. Hardly stacking the box making Hoyers arm beat you.

Stockton said they loaded the box maybe 100 times because Hoyer cant throw citing a basement blog post so people are starting to believe it

I'm counting players within 5 yd of the line and "inside the tackle box" at the snap of the ball. So even late, creeping safeties get counted.

Inside the tackle box includes ultra wide DEs and LBs on our TE's nose... even if our TE is slightly split.

I do not count CBs head up on a tight WR as they are there due to our offensive choice. A DB outside an OLB will get counted if he is head up on no one.

@tour2ma said:

Just curious, when you say "load the box" are you purely going by number of guys? Because I wouldn't be surprised if on some plays there were only technically 7 in the box, but they are right on the line of scrimmage to play the run.

@bbedward said:

Yea, but that's a good formula to beat a lot of teams. If we keep getting stuck in 3rd and 7-10 in Cincinnati that'll be a long 60 minutes.

Plus there's the reality that JAX did not load the box that much and so far OAK has done it once (I'm almost to the half).

@lbc-mike said:

That is going to be the d we will face for the rest of year. Stop the run. You stop the browns

Yea, but that's a good formula to beat a lot of teams. If we keep getting stuck in 3rd and 7-10 in Cincinnati that'll be a long 60 minutes.

@gwopdog said:

I think he adapted well on the fly after we lost Cameron in the 2nd Q. Jim Dray, Gary Barnidge, Austin, Hawkins, Benjamin, & Gabriel are the receiving weapons. Those guys are solid, but certainly not all pros.

You and others have rightly pointed out the impact of the Mack injury. Hopefully this week's starting O line is the same as the Raiders game, and we can gain confidence back in running the ball.

I think we get down on coaching staffs because we are so used to failure. Give the staff a break for now & see how this pans out in the next 2 games.

@lbc-mike said:

That is going to be the d we will face for the rest of year. Stop the run. You stop the browns

For the next three weeks ... then we add a weapon as good as any in the NFL ... things will open up big time.

Z

@lodilobo said:

Where was Crowell yesterday? He is the best of the 3, in my opinion. I think he had 1 carry for 1 yard. They could all do well in the right system, but Crowell should be the primary r.b. here.

I coached (baseball) for many years and there is an art to keeping your players "up" and have them playing confidently. It's not an easy task, but the way this coaching staff has approached this position is mind boggling.

I understand that Tate was the featured back and had the starting job un-questionably secured heading into the season, and I understand Mack's worth, not just to the continuity of the line and blocking schemes, but to his teammates and locker room ... but how a coaching staff handles situations when those two guys go down injured says a lot and so far it's not been handled very well and it started to go South even before Tate's return and well before Mack's injury.

Don't get me started feeding a feud in the press between Hoyer & Manziel and their long-term contracts or not. Complete assine to have that paraded out during the seasons high-peak to date. Professionals? ha!

@osiris said:

I saw Crowell in there for one play. In any case, the RBs are not the problem. The O-line makes the running back, and our O-line is still struggling since Mack was injured. Anyone who thinks one guy can't make this much difference on the line needs to go back to see how all the Browns players reacted when Mack went down vs. the Squeelers.

Now, I think, we will see what this OC is make of. He has met adversity. Will he adapt.....or go the route of the dinosaurs ala the Holmgren WCO.

@thaak said:

He's fumbled once. How does that mean he has to work on fumbles?

Maybe but he's bobbled balls and got the right bounces. I'd like to see him take better care of it that's all. I think he's earned the spot as #2 over west though.