@bbedward said:

So you're a Hoyer fan then?

I'm think it's more that he's pointing out the upside Brian has...

I don't care what any of you think, Jordan Cameron is a tank and a fucking bad ass TE. Hoyer is a baller, sometimes it takes a while to get on the same page. I could be nerves or chemistry, but sooner or later they will sync, and it's going to be fucking beautiful... Probably about the time Gordon returns and we have found a fucking wonderful supporting cast of WRs! Clearly they are the surprise of the team. Hawkins is magic out there, always wide open. Austin has found the fountain of youth that Dansby spoke of. Gabriel is a rookie and is already playing better than Robo, who was a second rounder. Even TB has looked a lot smoother in his routes. Look out when Gorgon returns, it's going to be like when the Colts had Peyton and the bunch years ago. Always somebody open, always somebody making a play.

We sign Cam long term, nothing crazy but something deserved and incentive based. Keep him hungry for more. He's a star. Respect Jordan.

This team is fucking amazing. After years and years of, "oh my, not again". I don't have to try N pump myself up for this team. They do it for me. They are special. Remember also, what we have here, being as good as it's been, is only going to improve and get better and better through the years. This is a very YOUNG and Hungry bunch, that given the time to build and gel and grow together- will thrive and blossom into the kind of team we are all longing for. Sit back a smile and revel in that for a moment. This is only the beginning.

@bbedward said:

talked himself into that one didn't he? lols

@manzier said:

Just so you know, passes thrown away and passes knocked down at the line do not count as targets for the receiver.

So we're talking about only 42% of passes thrown past the line of scrimmage in the direction of Jordan Cameron have been completed...and Cameron only has 1 drop.

You tell me what the problem is there.

@bbedward said:

58% last year with Hoyer throwing the ball. 72% with everyone else.

So footballs have been on the mark just bouncing off his chest as he keeps his arms down?

And jumping is pretty normal thing to do for accurately thrown footballs?

What was Cameron's catch rate when hoyer started 2 games last year. Dude just flat out hasn't been good this year. Not using his hands, not jumping.

@jrb12711 said:

One other player in the entire NFL has had more inaccurate passes thrown to him.

That player and Jordan Cameron, their QBs are last and second to last in Completion %.

Do you think thats a giant coincidence?

Let me repeat my question that wasn't answered from before. Is Jordan Cameron out this week because of an accurate pass or because of a inaccurate pass he had to make a hero catch on, which led him directly into a safety?

Which was it?

@stocktonshorts said:

First off, stop throwing around the Cameron being a pro-bowler line. Derek Anderson made the pro bowl in 2008 for Christ sake, it's not impossible to have a fluke year in the NFL.

So you believe that Cameron is so infallible that he never ran a bad route, got beat by his man in coverage, or otherwise made an error that made the pass incomplete? that maybe he hears footsteps and doesn't go hard across the middle because of concussion problems?

Is that what you're trying to say?

I wouldn't argue Hoyer is throwing inaccurately lately. I wouldn't argue that Cameron is being misused. Hell, I even agree on some of the points you made. But to make the statement that every incomplete pass is on a QB is so dumb I literally can't wrap my head around it. But it's clear you are a guy who puts his fingers in his ears and shouts when the facts you put out don't tell the whole story.

@jrb12711 said:

Well Cameron was at 68% a year ago and what you're saying is that somehow Cameron having the lowest catch rate of any Tight End in the NFL is somehow his fault and not the fault of the QB who is second to last in the NFL in completion % and for his career, since college, has been wildly inaccurate.

Thats what you're saying?

That Cameron ran to the wrong place and Hoyer threw it where he was supposed to be and that Cameron didn't get open but Hoyer tried to throw it in there anyway. Thats what has happened and not Hoyer, the second lowest completion % in the entire NFL, not being able to throw an accurate pass to him. To the 2013 AFC Pro Bowl Tight End.

Is that what you're trying to say?

@jrb12711 said:

Yep, Way too many variables to make irresponsible statements like Stocktons.

You'd have to plot each pass to know. But you can assume that the non catches include a mix of bad passes, defended passes, blocked/tipped passes, throw aways, hard to reach balls(see below), etc etc etc

Plus Cameron is often used to "go get passes", meaning we often throw high and away hoping he'll go get it. And sometimes thats the ONLY place to throw if he's covered. And if he misses those balls, it's not a drop and it's not a bad pass. It's just a play that didn't work cause he wasnt open(but was targeted)

@stocktonshorts said:

So you can comfortably say that every pass that was incomplete was an inaccurate throw? Not due to Cameron running a bad route, not getting separation, etc? Stats can easily be misleading, the comment 'stats don't lie' is the biggest bullshit statement thrown around the sports world.

@clevfan4life said:

Yes he did. Thats also the only drop Cameron has had all year.

Jordan Camerons catch rate is 42% this year. Meaning he's only caught 42% of all his targets, yet only has 1 drop this entire year. Do the math. That is a lot of inaccurate balls thrown his way. Theres only 1 player in the entire NFL who has at least 25 targets this year who has had more inaccurate throws his way. Thats 58% of the passes thrown to Jordan Cameron are incomplete, and he's only dropped 1 pass the entire year. What that means for the lower IQ'd of you is that 58% of the time Brian Hoyer has tried to throw a pass to Jordan Cameron the ball was thrown so poorly it was not catchable.

Second worse in accurate passes to him in the entire NFL. Our Pro Bowl Tight End can not catch passes because he is getting the second most inaccurate passes thrown to him in the NFL.

Tell me, is Jordan Cameron out this week because of an accurate ball thrown to him or is he out because he made a hero catch of a poorly thrown ball across the middle directly into a safety?

Stats don't lie. Might want to watch the games and understand them before posting on a browns forum.

@stocktonshorts said:

Cameron dropped one against Oakland that hit him the bellybutton. Might wanna watch Browns games before you post on a browns forum

Given it's a contract year, I doubt any of us could be more disappointed than Cam is.

More than catching... acceleration, speed and agility have all been lackluster this year. Watching Graham last nite brought this into even sharper focus for me.

Can't block, can't catch (body catching and dropping many), doesn't go up for jump balls, etc.

Idk what happened to him but hopefully he shapes up when he comes back.