@unsympathetic said:

Flacco isn't worth Flacco money. The Ravens handing that jackass a contract of that magnitude made me smile from ear to ear.

@nepatriots said:

Manziel is a complete fraud.

Disagree, but even if he is, he's now our "complete fraud"... so tread carefully.

In Hoyer you have a guy who learned under Belichick and Brady and is now winning games for you.

Get rid of him for a media gimmick and watch how fast you become miserable, hopeless Brown fans again (no offense) full of regrets.

Still a nice little start.....

WSS

@gftchris said:

I think the current system seems to be designed in a large way to emphasise the attributes that Hoyer and Manziel share, perhaps even a little bit leaning towards Manziel. A strong run game will allow a touch of read option; play action and roll-outs will get Manziel the ball in space and time, where he can make a read or two, or if it's not there, do something with his legs (A&M highlight reel style).

Maybe I'm wrong, but we don't seem to be doing as much pure pocket passing as previous years. Or maybe I'm just noticing the PAP more because that's what Hoyer seems to excel on, where Weeden and Campbell sucked.

Pretty sure we are doing more naked boots, and in general we are certainly passing less as even this year's currently diminished ground game would have looked awesome compared to most of what we had last year. So the pocket passing is likely down, but a lot of PAP action still ends up in the pocket.

Other than the pistol, which is more JM friendly, I think the formations are fairly neutral.

JM is a good PA QB, but BH's skills are greater IMO. Haven't seen PA skills like Hoyer's in a Browns uniform since Sipe. But in fairness, we've been thru so many QBs I may have forgotten a couple. Dilfer's were good as were Holcomb's. And at one point Garcia's were very good, but I think those were his SF days.

Wheezy made Campbell's limited PA skills look great...

@gftchris said:

I would agree. To me, the current system is kind of a bridge or transition to the someday future more wide open JFF system. Allows Hoyer AND the players to start adapting now, while still winning games. And, in the future someday who knows when, it will just need a tweak to go to the next level, instead of starting over.

@manzier said:

I think the current system seems to be designed in a large way to emphasise the attributes that Hoyer and Manziel share, perhaps even a little bit leaning towards Manziel. A strong run game will allow a touch of read option; play action and roll-outs will get Manziel the ball in space and time, where he can make a read or two, or if it's not there, do something with his legs (A&M highlight reel style).

Maybe I'm wrong, but we don't seem to be doing as much pure pocket passing as previous years. Or maybe I'm just noticing the PAP more because that's what Hoyer seems to excel on, where Weeden and Campbell sucked.

@tour2ma said:

....and that #3 looks a lot like the current #2. In a good way. And, to me, "someday" It would make sense for the 1 & 2 to have similar styles and capabilities

@bbedward said:

I don't think Flacco is worth Flacco money

Quite frankly, Hoyer is only half way through the process of showing us what he's worth. If the boi tosses it up for 3000 yards in the back 8 and lights it up, then what (I don't think it'll happen, but just sayin' if it did - the likes of Tampa, Tenn, Buffalo may get more interested)

I know, I know Stockton's argument of "Well if we don't re-sign Hoyer, and Manziel sucks in 2015 we're set back 5 years but we could just find out if Manziel is good now." Although I can make sense of it (maybe I'm a genius), I disagree you can fairly evaluate Manziel in < 8 games, and I believe he's discrediting Hoyer too much.

Anyway I think everybody's looking ahead too early. Let the season play out until we get a better idea. Agents suck, Hoyer wants to be here. We have to offer him something fair without overpaying but that's the challenge with every FA signing.

While I agree on Flacco (and Dalton and Kaepernick and Ryan and...), Flacco put up contract year numbers that clearly said, "I am worth keeping". To date discerning the $ value of Hoyer is tougher. Just another reason to keep playing as long as we are mathematically in contention.

Mathematical contention is as much as anything a two-word summary of the difference between most here and the omniscient StockBoy.

As for wasting time not evaluating JM... First, he has to be ready. If you put him on the field before he has both the playbook command and the ability to read D's, you are only hurting your ability to evaluate him. Learn the former in practice. Learn the latter in film sessions. Without both you are only evaluating his ability to miss plays, pull the ball down prematurely and run around... and we've already done that.

When we get around to evaluating JM, if he is not "the one", then we still have an unassuming #3 on the roster who is not devoid of talent.

And there will be others...

@bbedward said:

I don't think Flacco is worth Flacco money

Quite frankly, Hoyer is only half way through the process of showing us what he's worth. If the boi tosses it up for 3000 yards in the back 8 and lights it up, then what (I don't think it'll happen, but just sayin' if it did - the likes of Tampa, Tenn, Buffalo may get more interested)

I know, I know Stockton's argument of "Well if we don't re-sign Hoyer, and Manziel sucks in 2015 we're set back 5 years but we could just find out if Manziel is good now." Although I can make sense of it (maybe I'm a genius), I disagree you can fairly evaluate Manziel in < 8 games, and I believe he's discrediting Hoyer too muc

Anyway I think everybody's looking ahead too early. Let the season play out until we get a better idea. Agents suck, Hoyer wants to be here. We have to offer him something fair without overpaying but that's the challenge with every FA signing.

I agree bb, but please refrain from quoting Stockboy, I just threw up in my mouth a little.

@unsympathetic said:

I don't think Flacco is worth Flacco money

Quite frankly, Hoyer is only half way through the process of showing us what he's worth. If the boi tosses it up for 3000 yards in the back 8 and lights it up, then what (I don't think it'll happen, but just sayin' if it did - the likes of Tampa, Tenn, Buffalo may get more interested)

I know, I know Stockton's argument of "Well if we don't re-sign Hoyer, and Manziel sucks in 2015 we're set back 5 years but we could just find out if Manziel is good now." Although I can make sense of it (maybe I'm a genius), I disagree you can fairly evaluate Manziel in < 8 games, and I believe he's discrediting Hoyer too much.

Anyway I think everybody's looking ahead too early. Let the season play out until we get a better idea. Agents suck, Hoyer wants to be here. We have to offer him something fair without overpaying but that's the challenge with every FA signing.

Do the Browns go out on a limb and insinuate that Jonnny's their guy for the future to pressure Hoyer to sign for less or worse yet, force Hoyer out? Both sides could be treading on thin ice. If Hoyer's forced out and Johnny Football is a bust "You got a lotta splainin' to do Lucy !" Either way it will be interesting to see how this shakes out.

GO BROWNS !

But also, know this. He is IN NO WAY worth Flacco money. If his agent brings that up even as a joke [or a starting point]in the offseason, he's released and good riddance without a second thought. At best 3 yrs / $20M.

Yes, Manziel sits. He should. But Hoyer's value is not infinite.

@bbedward said:

Looks like McD was bullied and dropped face down more than once, but he seemed to get a little better as the game went on.

Pretty much the case as I saw it as well.

@tour2ma said:

Nick McDonald: 1st +4-11 net -8 w/ 4D-; 2nd +6-12 net -6 w/ 1D-; Game Totals: +10-23 net -13

First off... the spectacular, early blow up of McD by McCoy (S1P3) was "enhanced" by Bito's right foot tripping McD (look close at the gif, you'll see it). Not that he wasn't on his way to Hoyer's lap, if not the ground, anyway. To prove he did not need Bito's help, he got himself planted again two plays later (S1P5). For the balance of the Q1 he actually played "decent", +2-0 ball. Q2 brought back-to-back bad on S5P2&3. First an LB ripped him on his way to stuffing West for a 4 yd loss. Then he was too slow to plug a gap allowing a QB hurry.

In a nutshell I see power in McD's game if he has a little space/ time to gear up for a drive block. Under such circumstance he even managed to turn McCoy one time... a nice effort there. But if McD is beaten to the punch or is not square to his assignment, there's trouble in his immediate future. Same is true if he can set for pass protection, but if driven back at the snap, he can't halt the surge. He does generally keep his head on a decent swivel in pass protection and can pick up a stunt into his area, but lacks the quicks to move and help.

@clevfan4life said:

Looks like McD was bullied and dropped face down more than once, but he seemed to get a little better as the game went on.

@nickers said:

You read it backassward my friend;)

@bbedward said:

Idk that I'd really blame either of them. I'd blame McD more for getting thrown back so fast, but it is Gerald McCoy.

@clevfan4life said:

Idk that I'd really blame either of them. I'd blame McD more for getting thrown back so fast, but it is Gerald McCoy.

@ballpeen said:

Exactly my thinking. If some hear one person call for JF, they act like it is dozens or hundreds.

I don't know why they are so damn insecure.

Theyre insecure because he's not playing and the possibility of being a "bust" still looms.

@texasag1969 said:

Exactly my thinking. If some hear one person call for JF, they act like it is dozens or hundreds.

I don't know why they are so damn insecure.

Something like that is fixable, though probably not in one practise session (no practise mon/weds/thurs).

It is only his second start in a few years and is correctable, I just don't know how long it'll take,