ManzielSucks said:

Gordon isn't smart enough to run a different route depending on coverage.

ManzielSucks said:

I never mentioned Manziel in this thread till just now. I was talking about the WRs responsibility to read the DB and LBs for his route changes.

Then yes, I believe Gordon has made more mistakes than people realize. Hoyer also hasn't really looked around so much since he's been back for whatever reason.

ManzielSucks said:

Why are you here? Other then to ask me stupid questions. Do you talk football at all? This is your only post in this whole thread... Look around more then just me think he can't read defenses.

He definitely mastered some concepts at A&M and demonstrated making the throw to the 2nd, 3rd progressions for those concepts. One in awhile he was locked on pre snap, but not all that often.

Of course, I'm sure the pass concepts are many more and more difficult in Shanny's system than what he had at A&M. But how he executes on those can only really be evaluated by the staff since we haven't seen him run it.

It's pretty obvious I'm not sucking Johnny around here, but there should be some objective evaluation to both these guys. There a lot who are totally biased one way or the other, you're one of them.

But yes, it certainly isn't all on Hoyer. Gordon's made more mistakes than we probably think he has.

ManzielSucks said:

I'm here because I'm a Browns fan. You couldn't even admit to being a Browns fan when I confronted you with a very easy to understand question. So, your douchebag answer says it all. You're a troll.

Go fuck yourself (I didn't want to shorten that, because of your lack of reading comprehension skills)

@walterwhite said:

It's never Brian Hoyers fault.

'Bout time you started quoting me... No? Or is passive-aggressive your internet style of choice?

FYI... the second INT was totally on Hoyer. He got suckered in... and this was only the third time I've said so.

ManzielSucks said:

Why are you here? Seriously? Are you a Browns fan at all?

@browns149 said:

I always thought on 2 deep safeties, the WR should go OUTSIDE!

The 2 deep safeties are INSIDE.

Watch Aaron Rodgers. He throws the ball down the sidelines IN BETWEEN the safety and the corner.

It takes the safety a lot longer to cover the sidelines, then it does the hash

When the safety is playing outside leverage or outside of the hash, you run the skinny. Pretty easy read as a receiver.

1st pick is on Gordon. If He's there like he should be -it's a big gain. Hypothetical - if Hoyer waits to see him get into his break the ball will be late and the safety will still be there. Receiver has to see what the QB does.

If we are riding the excuse train remember Johnny had two passes hit the receivers in the hands but...

WSS

@tml1138 said:

I agree, his lack of effort should be a concern.

What I have a slight problem with is Gordon's body language after the INT. Maybe he was mentally giving himself lumps for screwing up, but I thought he should've been turning on a dime and trying to tackle. He's fast enough.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but my concern is his attitude in situations like that. I hope I'm looking into something that isn't really there.

@browns149 said:

It really depends on what's going on.

Ideally you want spread out WRs, and the safety tries to play the inside, which is where it opens up that the receiver gets open outside.

But pretty often in cover 2 the middle of the field is also an option if you can get between the safeties (or overtop). It was pretty clear Hoyer anticipated Gordon cutting inside the safety (it wasn't a matter of Hoyer not seeing something). Honestly I trust Hoyer's knowledge a bit more than Gordon's on that one. Seems like the general consensus is it was Gordon's mistake...

The last throw of the 1st half against ATL saw a similar situation (albeit against a more prevent-type defense). Except in that case Gordon was cutting inside where Hoyer threw it outside (incompletion, but also not one that's on Hoyer). There's definitely been some miscommunication issues down the field with Hoyer+Gordon.

The second interception was because he didn't see the safety, entirely his fault.

I'm not excusing Hoyer at all. He played pretty unacceptable and couldn't get it going...for awhile now.

My evaluation when our offense was capable of more than -5 yards (first half) with Hoyer is they kept it really simple and quick. Slants, drags, screens. One smart audible to get Austin down the field. He really hasn't been able to find ANYTHING on his 5-7 step dropbacks where there's more going on up the field (say past the linebacker level).

For some reason he never seems to get to his checkdown, even though sometimes he'd have them wide open. His once-seemingly-fast progressions seemed slow. Looking at the #1 and then not being able to get past that quick enough or if he did not being able to find anything. Partly due to buffalo's solid pass rush, but we've seen him struggle with it for the past few now - even against a horrid ATL pass defense.

I have no objection to starting Manziel next week (pretty much every game seems must-win now, but I never was optimistic against the Colts). Will Pettine do it? I'm giving it about 55/45 that he announces Manziel starts. But the safari can continue until Tuesday/Wednesday.

@walterwhite said:

Sure it was. Gordon was wide open for a TD and Hoyer threw it RIGHT TO THE SAFETY

@tiamat63 said:

The Colts pass rushers don't bother me. JT will stone wall Waldon and Schwartz will be fine against a regressing Werner.

Our defense on the other hand....

The 2 deep safeties are INSIDE.

Watch Aaron Rodgers. He throws the ball down the sidelines IN BETWEEN the safety and the corner.

It takes the safety a lot longer to cover the sidelines, then it does the hash

EDIT: Other than Walter's ill-informed, knee jerk reaction...

Our defense on the other hand....

Interceptions like today and last week are on the QB.