Jenkins has to be talked about when discussing BPA. We can certainly find a spot for him on the roster.

-Al

@jewdago said:

against a&m and OSU, the two games you're talking about where he was healthy, he had seven tackles, two for loss and two and a half sacks to go along with 4 QB hurries and a forced fumble, all while being the player that opposing offenses are scheming to stop more than any other.

let's not forget that OSU played their best game of the year in that bowl game. instead of folding like they'd previously done all year, the buckeyes really played well against texas.

Yep, you are right. The only game he was healthy for at the end was Tech. I think he missed the Baylor game completely.

While I'm not crazy about him I'd rather see him in Orange than I would Jenkins. There are worse picks than Orakpo. That is for sure.

This is what makes these kind of discussions so much fun.

against a&m and OSU, the two games you're talking about where he was healthy, he had seven tackles, two for loss and two and a half sacks to go along with 4 QB hurries and a forced fumble, all while being the player that opposing offenses are scheming to stop more than any other.

let's not forget that OSU played their best game of the year in that bowl game. instead of folding like they'd previously done all year, the buckeyes really played well against texas.

@jewdago said:

it's the ability to vary his rush that will make him a success because it forces the OT to account for various rush angles and can catch him off balance. that's why i think orakpo has a good chance to be successful in the NFL and is worth the fifth overall pick.

one game doesn't change his abilities.

I agree...One game doesn't change his abilites. But one game and good coaching can expose weaknesses.

But That's why I said I haven't really seen him that much. I just wasn't impressed with him at all in that one game. Against a line that had been generally horrible all year.

He's a physical speciman....I just worry about him. I worry about DL's that get moved the LB spot. I also worry about his health as he's had numerous injuires.

I was looking at his stats this year. In his first four games against Florida Atalntic, Rice, UTEP and Arkansas he has 17 tackles and dominated.

In his last four games against Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Kansas and OSU he had only 8 tackles and didn't do much at all.

it's the ability to vary his rush that will make him a success because it forces the OT to account for various rush angles and can catch him off balance. that's why i think orakpo has a good chance to be successful in the NFL and is worth the fifth overall pick.

one game doesn't change his abilities.

@jewdago said:

i'm not saying jenkins is a bad idea per se, i just think we can use the pick to address an area of greater need with a player of comparable long-term impact. a good pass rusher is just as useful as a shutdown corner if not more so.

After watching Orakpo's two tackle performance against Boone in the Fiesta Bowl I was not impressed at all.

I didn't get to see him that much but I worry about him being being overrated.

@snatch98 said:

i'd take orakpo over both of them. he's got the strength to be a good OLB and the quickness, too, plus his play this past year was more consistent than brown's and he fills a bigger need for us than jenkins does. while our starting corners are young, have a lot to learn and need to be more consistent, our pass rush sucked ass this year. we had a total of 17 sacks in 16 games, and 4.5 of those came from our NT. meanwhile, we somehow managed to get 23 picks on the year.

i'm not saying jenkins is a bad idea per se, i just think we can use the pick to address an area of greater need with a player of comparable long-term impact. a good pass rusher is just as useful as a shutdown corner if not more so.

@snatch98 said:

Be honest. Do you think Townsend, McFadden and Taylor would hold up any better than our guys without the aid of any pass rush whatsoever?

@jewdago said:

an effective pass rush compresses or eliminates the pocket time the QB has and can force him into bad decisions or make sure he doesn't get the ball out of his hands at all, which makes the secondary's job much easier. it also keeps the defense fresher because they're not running around as much.

come on, man. as a steeler fan, you see every week that an effective pass rush is one of the best tools a defense can have at its disposal. you should know this stuff.

and, yes, jenkins is an upgrade over mcdonald, but he's projected as a shutdown kinda guy. he's an upgrade over most CBs.

Of course I know and understand what it takes to have a good pass rush. I just don't think selecting Jenkins at 5 is a bad idea, you definitely need the secondary help. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Curry go as high as 3 which leaves you Brown. Would you rather have Brown than Jenkins?

@snatch98 said:

it's not that a good secondary doesn't help the pass rush to get sacks, it's that an effective pass rush is a better tool to get to the QB than good coverage is. coverage sacks take time, and every nanosecond that a QB has increases the likelihood that one of his WRs will break away from a DB. coverage sacks force both the pass rushers and the DBs to exhaust themselves and can lead to them getting burned on the next play.

an effective pass rush compresses or eliminates the pocket time the QB has and can force him into bad decisions or make sure he doesn't get the ball out of his hands at all, which makes the secondary's job much easier. it also keeps the defense fresher because they're not running around as much.

come on, man. as a steeler fan, you see every week that an effective pass rush is one of the best tools a defense can have at its disposal. you should know this stuff.

and, yes, jenkins is an upgrade over mcdonald, but he's projected as a shutdown kinda guy. he's an upgrade over most CBs.

I think someone is throwing out some speculation because I don't think they have any interest. I think they have more interest in Holly and Bodden (who won't take a pick away) then Jenkins.

It's LINEBACKER.................................................What happens in FA will dictate our draft stratagy.

overall, i agree with the sentiment that our DBs will look far better once we have a legit pass rush. however, given the depth of LBs in this draft and the possibility that we could end up getting a pass rusher in the second, jenkins in the first wouldn't be the worst pick ever.

i believe in sean jones' ability to support the run, blitz off the edge and lay receivers out. i'm not sold on his coverage ability, but a lot of that is probably because he played hurt last year. conversely, i like nothing about brodney pool. he hasn't improved over his years in the league, and with his physical ability, he should be better then just an average player. he's got the speed to be a great safety, but only the brain to make five dollar footlongs.

drafting jenkins would give us a true cover safety, something few teams have, and would open the door for truly exotic formations that few teams in the league can use because we wouldn't have to sub in an extra corner to cover a third receiver unless we wanted to play with two deep safeties. we'd be able to use the 2-5-4, a defensive formation that (i think) only arizona and baltimore can use because of ed reed and antrell rolle.

yes, our overall priority should be to improve the pass rush, but we don't have to do it in the first as long as we're sure we can do it later.

I can't see us letting Sean Jones go. I'm haven't seen enough of Jenkins to picture him as a SS but who knows. Josh Cribbs already stated (radio) that Mangini may use him as a safety. That throws a wrench into the situation too.

Fact of the matter...we have quite a few solid option at no.5 and in the 2nd and 3rd (hopefully trading down...which could be tough given the small group of tier 1 guys).

@darubes said:

wouldn't be able to stay with a receiver given the Browns total lack of a pass rush.

You get pass rushers (plural) in free agency or by the draft for this team and it will be

amazing how much better the DBs look.

The type of 3-4 it appears we are going to play depends very heavily on the front 3 getting some pressure on the qb and slowing the run we will likely only bring one(hopefully well disguised)linebacker as extra pressure in most suspected passing plays...

The current personnel problems with mangini/ryans 3-4 scheme is obvious:

We have only 1 beast in our front 3 in rogers..we need 3 bruisers and these guys dont grow on trees and now even more defenses are going 3-4 making these beasts a really hard to obtain commodity..Both our DEs lack the ability to take on or shed a doubleteam(williams is tuff and played hurt so i will cut him slack)...and this results in our linebackers getting mauled as run gap stops or getting engaged pre-coverage on passing sets..

Our linebacking core is slow,weak and or non-responsive and has had to be played farther off the line to compensate for a bad front 2 DEs...andra davis sucks he cant think fast and running backs have blown past him before he even realized it he looks like he is just learning the game he has to go.

Willie McAncient still has some juice but needs to retire even so like D'Qwell he is a victim of the front 3 and cam wimperly lacks moves and speed and was a victim of a static defense..poole is hit and miss..we may have enough talent in bell,hall,holloway and griffin to compensate unfortunately its hard to tell as the last regime gave us merely a glimpse of these guys..

We could use a good safety as well sorensen and adams are only backups and lawson is useless holly could help out a lot here if we retain him..

Our secondary is fine it is a victim of the front 7 and a lack of a solid safety...

@ballpeen said:

I predict that. We will revisit this prediction next year.

I agree completely peen..the browns arent going anywhere for at least 2-3 more years we are a real longshot to even make a playoff via wildcard for the next 2 seasons...thats not to say 100% we wont make it to the playoffs or have 7-9,8-8 or 9-7 fairly successful seasons but we have a lot of missing pieces and the probability of filling them all in this season is close to none and probably only 50%-70% of the new regimes roster filled/replaced by the 2010 season...

The 2011 season will be the one for browns fans to start getting excited about if all plays out well with the mankok regime..

wouldn't be able to stay with a receiver given the Browns total lack of a pass rush.

You get pass rushers (plural) in free agency or by the draft for this team and it will be

amazing how much better the DBs look.

@sez.ej said:

I agree Sez.

We all have a feel for what out biggest needs are, and the ideal is we are able to address those, but as the draft transpires, it isn't always going to hand us the player we think we need. Many times it hands you a player at another position.

Once you get deeper you can afford to pass and maybe reach a bit to more or less fine tune the roster, but when you have needs all over the field, you need to take what the draft presents.

If Curry is available...that is the ideal. Player and needs match to a T....if he isn't, then you have a choice....reach to fill a need or go with another player who is going to stud at his position.

We have FA in a week....that is where we have to address some needs. We have to find a backer or two....we can't rely on the draft being able to help us there....even though I think it will.....round 2 is still going to have players available who wouldn't be considered a stretch at the top of round 2.

How many plays of 20 yards or more did we give up?

I think that this would be a good pick and possibly get Matthews in the second round.

We can always pick up a pass rusher thru FA or we can call in a blitz play on defense also.

@ballpeen said:

I predict that. We will revisit this prediction next year.

hahaha. nice prediction. but seriously, we need a pass rusher like chris brown needs anger management.