@indycrazy1213 said:

But we really don't get those "make up" or "bail out" calls like Brady gets.

Yeah it's always "the other" team that gets the calls...

The Kruger hit was less than "not that bad". Upon further review, it was not bad at all. Someday replay will come in, until them we can only hope that refs realize that impacts to the head will knock the head away from the tackler, not towards him.

The Skrine PI was at best an inconsistent call.

Did he grab jersey? Yup.

Did it have material impact on the play? No.

Was it PI? From replays I've seen... no.

Here's the rub: the BackJudge that threw the flag could not have seen the jersey grab, so it must have been for something he could see.

Only possible thing I can see is that while outjumping your TE Skrine went slightly into him. Hardly the outlawed "playing the ball thru the man". Looked more like the legal play on the ball...

But that's me... and it was the worst scenario, a bad call that influenced the outcome of a close, hard fought game.

@darkside5 said:

The 60's? Shit. I go back home twice a year to play in our alumni games and they let us play more physical than what I see without the flags.

@jrb12711 said:

It's definitely edit: NOT a conspiracy against the Browns, it's just any team that goes against an "elite" QB. It goes back to my point that if it's going to be called so liberally it needs to be reviewed. I hate slowing the game down like that but these calls are often critical in the result of the game.

@indycrazy1213 said:

Yeah the Kruger hit wasn't bad, unfortunately the NFL calls anything that remotely looks like helmet to helmet contact. Especially for quarterbacks. But I don't want you guys to think that Luck and company get the calls cuz were an "elite" team. We're not even close to elite or great IMO.

Wayne was being held on every third down play in Denver week 1, I mean Roby was mugging him. And considering we were coming back and stopping Manning in the 2nd half, can't say I'm surprised with no calls.

The Colts were screwed out of a first down that would've essentially sealed the deal against Philly week 2, with a no call against Boykin holding Hilton.

The Patriots get any call they want as long as they look at the ref and throw their hands in the air. I specifically remember that travesty of a call when the Browns went to New England last year, absolute terrible call that set Brady up for the win.

My point being is that I know there were some pretty iffy calls all game, I thought a lot of them were really really close and hard to tell for an official. But we really don't get those "make up" or "bail out" calls like Brady gets.

Wayne was being held on every third down play in Denver week 1, I mean Roby was mugging him. And considering we were coming back and stopping Manning in the 2nd half, can't say I'm surprised with no calls.

The Colts were screwed out of a first down that would've essentially sealed the deal against Philly week 2, with a no call against Boykin holding Hilton.

The Patriots get any call they want as long as they look at the ref and throw their hands in the air. I specifically remember that travesty of a call when the Browns went to New England last year, absolute terrible call that set Brady up for the win.

My point being is that I know there were some pretty iffy calls all game, I thought a lot of them were really really close and hard to tell for an official. But we really don't get those "make up" or "bail out" calls like Brady gets.

Calls wouldn't have mattered if Hoyer and Cundiff weren't so bad for you guys. If the Browns aren't trying out kickers this week then something is wrong. NFL kickers don't miss kicks 5 or 6 weeks in a row.

When a good defensive play happens, you have to wait to see if there are any flags

Same with a punt or kickoff return.

@darkside5 said:

And Goodell gets his crown? We need a pic of him sitting on the Iron throne.

@darkside5 said:

Heads up hands up. Anyone who has ever played real football knows it's physically impossible to play defense under todays rules and be a boss

Impossible? No... Harder? Yes, especially with allowances not made for the QBs and Receivers ducking their heads to "protect" themselves. But we're talking tackling technique here...

Anyone who has played "real football" has been told to "see what you hit". My coaches stressed this all the time for safety. Also happens to have the added benefit of improving tackling... shoulder tackling with the head in front, and the arms wrapping and pulling in. You know... old school shit. Produced fewer KOs... but a lot surer "tackles".

Pete Carroll even developed a program to reintroduce shoulder tackling using Rugby tackling as a model.

@darkside5 said:

There hasn't been enough evaluation of the heads up program (still in its infancy), but I would venture to say that kids may be trading concussions for broken necks. Both of which are tragic.

Sure... except that science has shown that neck trama induced paralysis is far more likely from compressive impacts caused by head-down, crown hits than head up hits which tend to cause the dreaded neck "sprains".

We've only known this for 30 years or so. You can ask Nick Buoniconti, if you do not believe me... Darryl Stingley unfortunately is not around to ask any longer.

"In a preseason game against the Oakland Raiders at Oakland Coliseum on August 12, 1978, Stingley was hit by Raiders defensive back Jack Tatum. As Stingley and Tatum collided, Stingley lowered his helmet, which made contact with Tatum's shoulder pad.[4] The hit compressed Stingley's spinal cord, breaking his fourth and fifth cervical vertebrae."

There's video around of the hit, but I'll not post it. Seen it too many times as it is.

@typicalbrowns said:

The annoncers said at one point during the game that this officiating crew throws the least amount of flags. And they were right ......until the 4th qtr.

@letsgojackets said:

First they outlawed the "clothesline" tackle and then the "spear" . Then the facemask was added to the helmet but you can't touch it.

And let's not forget the "horsecollar" and "targeting" the knees. Now we have instant replays , challenge flags 10 second runoffs . I say all this tongue in cheek but the game has changed drastically over time for better or for worse. One day they will add a forensic scientist to the officiating crew for paint transfer analysis to determine helmet to helmet contact . All the players will have attorneys on the sidelines to litagate unnecessary roughness penalties. And of course there will be appeals and games will last twenty-two hours. But hey we will stay up and watch them because we love football !

GO BROWNS !

@darkside5 said:

Heads up hands up. Anyone who has ever played real football knows it's physically impossible to play defense under todays rules and be a boss

All the more impressive that our defense was boss like yesterday.

It's gotta be damn near impossible to play in the secondary under today's rules, but somehow we managed to lock it down yesterday (despite a couple late hold calls that were nonsense)

@tour2ma said:

That is the way it looks two replay angles, but a 3rd, the close up from the best angle, low and behind Luck (a "Fox Sports" banner appears as the camera pans left) shows that at worst the helmets "touched".

Other than the fact that Krug's did dip his head down... yeah... "Heads up".

This is a natural reaction to any frontal impact that cannot be avoided by simply throwing a flag. No "crown" of the helmet came into play.

The program is about keeping the head up, not extending arms.

There hasn't been enough evaluation of the heads up program (still in its infancy), but I would venture to say that kids may be trading concussions for broken necks. Both of which are tragic.

@darkside5 said:

You mean when they let you play defense? When there was no instant replay? When the refs were held accountable? When games were watchable?

@tour2ma said:

Heads up hands up. Anyone who has ever played real football knows it's physically impossible to play defense under todays rules and be a boss

@letsgojackets said:

You should have been around in the 60's when you had to be a MAN to play football.

@6andcounting said:

As he continued to drive forward after the initial contact, the crown of his helmet hits just under the blue horseshoe.

That is the way it looks two replay angles, but a 3rd, the close up from the best angle, low and behind Luck (a "Fox Sports" banner appears as the camera pans left) shows that at worst the helmets "touched".

@darkside5 said:

The hit on Luck by Kruger was a textbook "Heads Up" tackle that the NFL has adopted for youth football.

Other than the fact that Krug's did dip his head down... yeah... "Heads up".

The program is about keeping the head up, not extending arms.

@darkside5 said:

Yep, that's exactly it.