@brownsfever said:

If it wasn't for his long KO's I think he'd be gone already, but yeah, it's hard to believe there's not someone more accurate out there.

@browns149 said:

Precisely. Unfortunately the Browns have used a bunch of backup QBs...or worse. Really, only Tim Couch could have been considered to be a starting NFL QB for more than a 1 year period....but he got hurt and he lost his confidence...and played for some awful teams.

We have had washed up starters like Dilfer/Garcia/Delhomme/Jason Campbell. Third round reaches like Frye/McCoy who didn't pan out. Frye...out of the league....McCoy is a backup. We have had first round busts like Quinn and Weeden. A few younger veterans that showed some promise but didn't ultimately pan out as hoped: Holcomb/Anderson/Hoyer

NONE of these guys ever went away from here to secure a full time starting gig.

We have not had a real NFL starting QB on this team since before "the move" (with the possible exception of Couch). Vinny and Bernie were the last ones we have had really

We now need to have one. We have had bad luck with like 20 guys in a row not fitting the bill.

Johnny Manzeil is now #21.....and we need to hit Blackjack with him.

@tour2ma said:

Only in Cleveland......yuck. Let's win out and do some damage in the postseason. Balls to the wall last 3 games. These men can do it!

@bob806 said:

... before Mack went down. The season was so promising...

Take just a second to put together in your head the O-line play/Offense we saw early with the D we see now.

No matter the QB, that image is dizzying...

THE MAN IN THE ARENA
Excerpt from the speech "Citizenship In A Republic"
delivered at the Sorbonne, in Paris, France on 23 April, 1910

I too was pulling for Hoyer, he was playing so well before Mack went down. The season was so promising (I know, it really isn't over yet, we still have a tiny chance if we win out). It just sucks to no end to see a team that was gelling at 6-3 hit the skids.

JF may provide a spark, I hope so. The move had to be done.

The future is bright. Our HC isn't perfect, but he's the best we've had in awhile. Farmer seems to be on top of things. We have closed the gap on our division rivals.

@roycerolls said:

more like a sun scorched peeling raisin laying in the basin of a AZ water way culvert, parched and oblivious to schwarzenneger as the terminator blowing through the guard rail from above.

Weeden looks like a garbage pail kid and has the IQ of a band aid. Thank Christ we never have to suffer through another Browns game quarterbacked by that water-trash.

@tour2ma said:

you know me better than that tour. won't give anyone that satisfaction. just like i'll never type johnny football. (except just now of course...doink)

@jafbf said:

I've been in Hoyer's camp since I saw him last year - the guy has the ability to play good ball.

Agree... For me it was not an issue of Hoyer's ceiling... it was high enough. It was a matter of his consistency at a level close enough to that. If you've shown the attic, then you should spend most of your time at least on the 2nd floor. But we saw too much basement and first floor.

And you know I think Mack was the key...

Faded said:

Most of us who registered on this board because of Manziel, actually went to A&M (I suspect - I haven't taken a survey or anything). So, in my mind, the comparison just doesn't really work. This is not a guy who didn't stick on my favorite pro team and then went somewhere else; he's a guy that was a smashing success at my school and now I'd like to see him succeed at the next level. Good for him, good for our program, good for you. And it never occurred to me that the Browns would or should pull Hoyer when he was winning games.

It's fanboys like you that just infuriate us "haters" with your logic and common sense and above all, your objectivity. Makes it so hard on us what with having to remember who's the good fanboy and who's the bad fanboy...

So, were you in the Corps?

Didn't you beat Cincy with a pretty good running attack last time? Is that likely to be repeated? That would be huge (of course).

Yes... ran for 170+ with West leading the way with 26 for 94 yds. It was McDonald's 3rd start at Center.

@miktoxic said:

here's to YOUR a and m QB turning into OUR nfl franchise QB.

If you are allergic to the ampersand in "A&M", then you can always just type TAMU...

You're welcome...

@lincoln-dukes said:

There is some merit and pondering to do with your commentary and I understand where you are coming from. Having said that you are dead wrong when you say we have nothing to lose by leaving Hoyer in the rest of the year. Look I was a huge fan and still appreciate his story but as Pettine said " its a results oriented business". Like many high pressure jobs its not what you have done but rather what have you done lately. The results over the last 4 weeks leave no sensible decision other than to make the QB change. I wish Hoyer the best and if he has to start for us again I hope he regroups BUT at the end of the day I am a Browns fan, not a Hoyer or Manziel fan. As a fan I say TEAR THE LEAGUE UP JOHHNY FOOTBALL

@miktoxic said:

hoyer actually played very well in the first cincy game after a bad defeat. that was the last of his good play. now it's manziel's turn. plain and simple. no need for any backstory's at this point.

here's to YOUR a and m QB turning into OUR nfl franchise QB.

Very well said Mik

Faded said:

hoyer actually played very well in the first cincy game after a bad defeat. that was the last of his good play. now it's manziel's turn. plain and simple. no need for any backstory's at this point.

here's to YOUR a and m QB turning into OUR nfl franchise QB.

I sat numb watching "The Fumble" and "The drive". I mourned the team when Modell stuck it to us and rejoiced when Michael White fought to keep the "team's history" and colors. I agonized when they chose Tim Couch no. 1 overall and Courtney Brown the next year.

I watched coaches come and go but my loyalty never wavered. I was baffled by the lack of interest by Mike Holmgren because it seemed his draft picks were not well scouted. (Haden was a miracle). Year after year I kept waiting and watching the draft live on TV. I saw mind boggling decisions and a lousy product on the field.

Then a miracle happened. New Ownership. A brand new start! And a chance to finally get respect amongst our football peers. Yea, I've been patient. I'm still a Browns fan and will die a Browns fan. And I'm giving Haslam time. At least a few years because it won't happen overnight. But we have to progress not digress as a team.

Once we lost Mack and the Run game, things fell apart for him and our Offense.

I mean when you're getting Sacked by a 3 Man Rush you've got more than just a QB problem . . . and how about that 1.9 yd/rush we were sporting there for a while?

I think the above really affected Hoyer and his timing's been off ever since

Gordon coming back looks to have hurt more than it helped since he was Hoyer's new Hi-Octane target, but unfortunately the rust and everyone else shuffling positions/duties was even more of a negative impact.

Have to say, I've been pretty depressed at how Hoyer and the O has fallen - we've just been brutal to that position.

I think Brian will bounce back, but sadly I doubt it will be here - he'd be a stellar Backup QB, which is not what he wants I know.

Having said that, now that Manziel's the man, I'm 100% behind him and will be hoping he does well.

I know you JM slurpers won't agree with this, but the best thing that could have happened to him is to sit for a few years. Hoyers regression may actually in the long run cost Manziel. Cleveland, for whatever reason, grinds noob QB's into the ground like a full time job.

once certain pieces are in place on a team, the GMs must draft to build around them year in and year out always thinking about those first pieces knowing the clock is running out on them.

drafting couch with no offensive line was just stupid. sure we had a good QB a nice receiver in johnson but there was no building from the middle out which if you ask anyone, and we should know from macks injury, is how you do it. a bust here and a bust there on defense and the browns were a dismal product. it cost many people their jobs.

right now the timing is ticking on the browns as we speak. joe thomas can't play forever. is mack going to be back and playing like before the injury? this next couple of years is going to be vital on what the browns do. we are young at all positions (except those mentioned) and the need to find key pieces that are going to last is monumental. let's hope the manziel pick will at least solidify that position for years.

next year is depth depth depth on the lines.

Wheezy is simply not worth discussing. Colt... I still think his damaged was a factor thru his tenure with us, but after one good start in WSH, his second wasn't exactly strong.

DA is an interesting example... After his miracle year of '07 he got the big contract and we were finally set. Problem is his miracle year was just that and not indicative of his long-term level of play. Turned out his miracle was getting by a full year as a one-read wonder.

He had 16 more starts for us over the next 2-years to back up the "miracle" followed by another 9 in AZ.

He had a good start this year. Looks like he may start this week, so let's see how that goes. Back-ups are expected to win one or two games... we'd be #3.

Aside: Phil Savage, the GM during DA's Browns' time, was praising the shit out of DA today on NFL Insiders. What were the odds of that?

@manzier said:

they all had their chance and have been in the league for years. They're not good nfl quality starters. Andersons been in the league like 8-9 years and you all are still hoping he'll be good???....really?

HAha...No, BUT, losing to him would be a big shitter