@douche-nozzle said:

The only way Little Johnny gets 200 starts is at a used car lot.

"Little Johnny, go wash all the used cars and repark them"

That would be two starts per car.................unless he leaves them running while he washes them.

Forgetting for the moment the process inefficiency of moving the cars to wash them...

You'd trust JM to move 200 cars in a crowded car lot?

"JF almost had more than 2 starts for the browns..."

chirp...chirp....chirp

@tour2ma said:

looks like i'll be owing a couple of steeler fans a six pack each.

live hard and die young they say.

but winning a six this sunday would bring me to .500 so....... just waiting to hear back.............................................

@tacosman said:

Not sure why you would think such a thing

More of a hope than a thought.

VesnaKociper said:

What Hoyer could or could not be doesn't matter. What he IS................. is what matters.

I hear ya, Ghoulie, but Brian no longer was what he had been... for whatever reason.

That said, Hoyer could have done no worse vs. CIN, and I believe he would have done better. Enough better to win the game? No... can't see that... but easily "avoid-the-shutout" better.

The other half of the QB swap equation was the belief that we had a back up who was ready for the big stage. Clearly that was not the case.

VesnaKociper said:

Don't have a heart attack, but unless this franchise hires Bernie Kosar.

As what?

@typicalbrowns said:

Times we made a play or first down, penalties were called

Times Johnny made a good throw, dropped by the reciever

Times Johnny made a decent read, his rookie awareness caused a pick due to his hesitation. (His actual mistake)

Run game, non existent.

Penalties?

Two false starts... never got to see the play.

One Illegal downfield cost us an 8-yard gain, but the cause? Double clutching the throw.

About it... unless you want to talk about CIN D penalties:

- an illegal use of hands that gave us a first instead of going 3 and out (S3P3);

- a taunting that helped fuel our best "drive" by negating the batting down of a 2nd-down pass (S5P6); and

- an illegal contact which negated one INT (S5P7)... although I should say "postponed the INT".

A drop?

Holy horrors!

Reads?

If the throw was late, the read was late.

Despite being limited by the broadcast's sideline view, I can cite two reads JM missed for every one you may think he made... maybe three, if I can use read-option misreads.

Run Game?

Yup... 3.1 YPC is not good. But without JM's 2.6, it improves to 3.3.

@typicalbrowns said:

i'll take that bet.

gentlemen's bet. 6 pack of whatever beer you drink.

Zombo said:

Yes, I know the team didn't play well. Yes, I know it was his first game. I don't give a fuck when it comes time to evaluate HIS performance. It was fucking awful. Against a huge rival in a big game with the playoffs on the line. That's what he fucking delivers? Three first downs, 54 yards and zero points? I don't care if he goes on to a Hall of Fame career, there is no excuse for that performance, we can only hope he learned from it and this week he delivers a glimpse of the goods that we spent a first round draft pick on.

Zombo

The reason this is so hard to understand for some is that we have too many here who are only fans of one player and not the team.

@typicalbrowns said:

Well, my response doesn't change, no matter how many times you want to list your litany of excuses.

Yes, I will sing his praises if he does great against Carolina. I'm a Browns FAN. That is short for fanatic. If they do really well, I am happy, if they do really poor, I am mad. What's so hard about this?

Seems you want me to give Manziel special treatment because he's a rookie, and everybody decided to be bad football players the week he played and bad people dropped balls, etc ...

Fuck the excuses. He was put in there as the leader of the team to provide a spark and he delivered a turd.

You want to know something about me? I never criticize the team or any of it's players when they win. If somebody fumbles three times, but we win, then I am happy. No one has ever seen me come on here and rant after a win. If you want to hear me say nice things about Manziel, then he needs to uplift this team this week and find a way to beat a bad Carolina team.

Or do we already have ready made excuses for that one? "Carolina was playing for something." "The veterans aren't playing hard for Johnny." The injuries have piled up."

You're the quarterback grab the offense by the nutsacks and say "we;re doing this" Then go out and execute the gameplan. You've been on the team since May, you've been the backup all season, which means you have to mentally prepare to be the starter. Surely he knows the playbook, go out there and execute it. That does not include floating passes into the middle of the field on first down when you are in scoring position. That does not include ignoring a pass rush while waiting for plays to develop .. deliver the ball! 54 yards passing, really??

I criticize everybody, I was the one comparing Brian Hoyer to "Scrawny Arms Rob Lowe" when he started struggling. I called for Manziel to replace Hoyer a week before most.

Then he went out, and he embarrassed me, he embarrassed the team and he embarrassed himself.

Yes, I know the team didn't play well. Yes, I know it was his first game. I don't give a fuck when it comes time to evaluate HIS performance. It was fucking awful. Against a huge rival in a big game with the playoffs on the line. That's what he fucking delivers? Three first downs, 54 yards and zero points? I don't care if he goes on to a Hall of Fame career, there is no excuse for that performance, we can only hope he learned from it and this week he delivers a glimpse of the goods that we spent a first round draft pick on.

Zombo

I really believe we could have built around Brian and held off on drafting a first round QB a year or two. I fully expected them to draft a QB, but to get a polarizing guy like JFF, who IMO, was such a project type QB, just begged for another QB controversy and put a gigantic target on Hoyer's back from the start. That's not the best way to support your bridge starter and was a huge mistake. It could very well have set us back at least 2-3 years if Johnny busts. I also don't think it was a good situation for Manziel to come into, either. It's become evident that he didn't come into the league ready to go. He would have been much better off going to a team with an already established vet to sit behind the way Rodgers did. Now the target has shifted to his back. I think we hurt ourselves and Manziel by taking him in Cleveland.

@typicalbrowns said:

Z isn't impatient- I'm not impatient. Question is- how much patience you gonna have, when the last decent qb we've had for more than a season was Bernie? You can play the "he's only a rookie card"- unfortunately the Manzealots are a day late to that party. He was going to be the biggest thing to hit the NFL since the introduction of the facemask- don't ya know? Some of your Manziel defense holds water- and a lot of it doesn't. His ONE ESPN qbr tells you all you need to know.

@typicalbrowns said:

I appreciate your sentiment, but I disagree with the assessment of him looking as bad as those who you mentioned, I believe it is way to soon to tell about Johnny. This dude made his name by learning for at least a year before performing as the starter in any echelon of football he has produced successfully in. I have no doubt in his ability to learn and process the game.

No- he was every bit as bad- three first downs the entire game says so. I'm not throwing him under the bus- yet. A duplicate of the Bengal suckage and we can start the motor. Ditto it against the Ravens, and the board will be lining up to run him over.

@mark-o said:

I hope he does light it up against Carolina. I'm not holding my breath though. He looked like shit. He looked like Weeden/Anderson/Quinn/Frye on their worst days...COMBINED. He did nothing that shows any NFL talent at all. I really want him to play a lot better because I'm sick of the QB merry go round. I'm just not convinced he's got it. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

I appreciate your sentiment, but I disagree with the assessment of him looking as bad as those who you mentioned, I believe it is way to soon to tell about Johnny. This dude made his name by learning for at least a year before performing as the starter in any echelon of football he has produced successfully in. I have no doubt in his ability to learn and process the game.

@tour2ma said:

Thought you were off investigating other forums...

Not sure why you would think such a thing

@typicalbrowns said:

I don't get it dude. If u watched the game, the you don't respond those words. It is very naive and ignorant to believe with how bad the team played a rookie from anywhere can succeed.

Times we made a play or first down, penalties were called

Times Johnny made a good throw, dropped by the reciever

Times Johnny made a decent read, his rookie awareness caused a pick due to his hesitation. (His actual mistake)

Run game, non existent.

Your rambling won't get the entire 53 man roster to do its job during a playoff game. The run defense was abysmal. Receivers dropped the ball, and o line played terrible

Go ahead and blame Manziel dumbass. I bet he lights it up against Carolina and you'll drool all over his ballsack.

He has the intangibles he just looked RAW. He is a ROOKIE. The team around him played HORRIBLE. The worst game of the year from an all around team standpoint. Manziel is the starter.

Don't know how you can argue that with a monologue on how bad the team has been in the past. Is that your excuse Z? I love u dude, you are a wonderful browns fan/poster but I feel like impatience is the problem here

I hope he does light it up against Carolina. I'm not holding my breath though. He looked like shit. He looked like Weeden/Anderson/Quinn/Frye on their worst days...COMBINED. He did nothing that shows any NFL talent at all. I really want him to play a lot better because I'm sick of the QB merry go round. I'm just not convinced he's got it. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

Zombo said:

"Brady had no chance ... Colt had no chance .. Charlie had no chance ..."

And they all went on to such stellar careers once they got away from our terrible rosters.

I'm sure there are 31 teams wishing they could start Johnny Manziel this week, because if all the rest of your players play well, he's spectacular. I assume.

This is the same team that was one dropped/misplayed pass from beating the Colts, same team that was in playoff contention after 13 games with a winning record ... we changed the leader, they play like dogshit ... so we blame the dogshit and not the leader?

So the team was supposed to elevate their play around Johnny to increase his chances for success?

That's really what you said?

I've been watching football wrong all these years. I swear when we had QBs that were difference makers (Kosar, Sipe), they elevated the players around them.

This was not a "we're out of the playoffs so let's get the rook some playing time" game. it was "this team needs a spark and this is the guy to do it" game.

Of course, NOW it is "we're out of the playoffs (almost) so let's get the rook some playing time."

If he wants to spend it floating passes into the middle of the field he'll be able to get out of miserable Cleveland and their terrible team in no time at all.

Zombo

I don't get it dude. If u watched the game, the you don't respond those words. It is very naive and ignorant to believe with how bad the team played a rookie from anywhere can succeed.

Times we made a play or first down, penalties were called

Times Johnny made a good throw, dropped by the reciever

Times Johnny made a decent read, his rookie awareness caused a pick due to his hesitation. (His actual mistake)

Run game, non existent.

Your rambling won't get the entire 53 man roster to do its job during a playoff game. The run defense was abysmal. Receivers dropped the ball, and o line played terrible

Go ahead and blame Manziel dumbass. I bet he lights it up against Carolina and you'll drool all over his ballsack.

He has the intangibles he just looked RAW. He is a ROOKIE. The team around him played HORRIBLE. The worst game of the year from an all around team standpoint. Manziel is the starter.

Don't know how you can argue that with a monologue on how bad the team has been in the past. Is that your excuse Z? I love u dude, you are a wonderful browns fan/poster but I feel like impatience is the problem here

Browns fans are Retards. This fanbase is so out of whack. First we want Hoyer signed to forever, then for 5 straight games Hoyer sucks, so we put rookie Manziel in. He sucks when the entire team forgets they actually have a game to

Play that day, and we want to go back to Hoyer. Fucking idiots

@hoorta said:

Har- you want Mariota, it will cost both first round picks, plus Joe Haden.

I'm mostly on the same page as Ghoolie. If Manziel totally shits himself the last two games- it puts the Browns in a bad, bad place. Are the Browns going to waste yet another season, only to find out Manziel is another Geno Smith?

Geno Smith would be a step up from the shit show we saw on Sunday.

@bbedward said:

Har- you want Mariota, it will cost both first round picks, plus Joe Haden.

I'm mostly on the same page as Ghoolie. If Manziel totally shits himself the last two games- it puts the Browns in a bad, bad place. Are the Browns going to waste yet another season, only to find out Manziel is another Geno Smith?

@bbedward said:

Wasn't there some rumblings (before we drafted Johnny) that our FO's favorite QB was Mariota and we may not take one at all last year?

I don't like Mariota a whole lot, definitely not enough to make a big trade - I wonder if the FO is still high on him though.

It wouldn't surprise me to find Farmer is high on Mariota, but there is no way in hell that the Browns draft him. Farmer and company are far too intelligent to trade away their draft for the chance to grab a QB one year after selecting a first round signal caller. Even if Mariota's stock slides and he is available around pick 15 I can't possibly fathom the Browns pulling the trigger on him. No FO in the league would ever admit that they missed on a first round QB after three games, it just doesn't happen.

JFFOREVER said:

Man am I glad you showed up to clear things up for us. My confidence in Johnny just went up 100%

Everything you said belongs in the excuses thread, but I'll address the playoffs thing. Playoffs were a likely scenario going into Sunday. They became unlikely by the end of the first half.

JFFOREVER said:

Go Johnny Football.

If your a true browns fan you would say the same thing.

If you were a Browns fan you'd have chosen different screen name... and shown up 15 weeks ago... at minimum.

@tacosman said:

No we were not the talk of the nfl. Are buzz level was still very low, mostly because it was 7-4 against the 31st or so ranked schedule in the league at the time.

I dreamt that whole no turnovers opening, that O-line top ranking at the quarter pole, and the greatest road comeback in the history of the NFL?

No buzz?