@walterwhite said:

That's a good message to send to the team.

@mudfly said:

In the end, he may get lucky like Hoyer did and just win by default..... If no one offers any real competition(like he didn't do for Hoyer), then he could play terrible and still be the starter....right?

There will be a vet in camp. I do not doubt that. What vet? No idea.

Also do not doubt that there will be a rook, a mid/late rounder... maybe UDFA, but in any case a project, a Connor Shaw.

So real competition for now question is: how big of a factor will Connor be?

Agree?

@tour2ma said:

Looks like a consensus.

Start Johnny the next 2 games, because it's time to see what he can do.

If he's as bad as the first game, then no way he gets "handed" the team. He will, however, get handed some form of competition at next years camp.

And if he shows measurable improvement, then he can go into camp as the "favorite"....but I think thats all he gets.....he'll have to earn the rest.

In the end, he may get lucky like Hoyer did and just win by default..... If no one offers any real competition(like he didn't do for Hoyer), then he could play terrible and still be the starter....right?

@texasag1969 said:

So here's the question. Do you as Pettine and the staff admit you brought him in too soon and restart BH the rest of the games going back to the original plan? Or do you decide it's sink or swim as the rookie plays out the season and gets the 1's from day one next year?

False choice...

JM's for the balance of 2014. Results to influence degree of competition in 2015 TC.

EDIT: Damn... just got a flag for "piling on".

@texasag1969 said:

So here's the question. Do you as Pettine and the staff admit you brought him in too soon and restart BH the rest of the games going back to the original plan? Or do you decide it's sink or swim as the rookie plays out the season and gets the 1's from day one next year?

Manziel finishes. Pettine had no hesitation in saying who's starting next week.

But 2 more games like that and he won't get the #1s next year.

@texasag1969 said:

You have to give him another game at least It's only fair and the right thing to do.

And with the playoffs gone, I say let him play out the last games and see what he has.

The part about getting the #1's from day 1 next season? Verdict is still out on that. Hoyer was great his first few games and didn't even get that benefit, so I doubt they'd hand over the team to JFF if he hasn't shown anything in a full year of practice and the same 3 games Hoyer got.

@texasag1969 said:

So here's the question. Do you as Pettine and the staff admit you brought him in too soon and restart BH the rest of the games going back to the original plan? Or do you decide it's sink or swim as the rookie plays out the season and gets the 1's from day one next year?

I think you have to sink or swim with him. We all know what Hoyer brings to the table and what is ceiling as a player is or isn't. Playing Hoyer the last two games doesn't help the evaluation process for the QB position. It has to be Johnny midget for the last 2 games and see what happens. Despite the fanboys opinion here, I have to think if he shits himself the last 2 games like he did yesterday, there's no way he's guaranteed to be the starter next season or for that matter even on the team.

@bbedward said:

Call me crazy and judgemental and hateful and spiteful, but I don't see Manziel performing well enough to guarantee himself the starting job next year.

All four? Gluttony is a sin ya know. Pick two and pass the rest...

Agree... At best JM is playing out the string to go into camp as the #1. But once in camp it's be the same as this year... a competition. If there is one thing that Pet has been firm on his entire rookie year, it's competition. I do not see that changing.

We now see how JM lost the 2014 TC competition. If he was this raw in Week 15, then just imagine what the staff saw in TC.

@bbedward said:

This is how I feel.

There were some pretty specific issues with JFF coming out of college. Beyond the work ethic-playboy stuff, there were issues with footwork, understanding defenses, knowing when to throw and when to run, etc.

After 16 weeks of coaching, I was hoping some of that would be coached out of him and we would see some adjustments in his game. Isn't that why he was being held back? So he could "learn"? And I didnt see that.

I sure hope he looks better next week. Almost has too. But wonder if 1 extra week of coaching will change what 16 weeks didn't already change in the first place.

@tobalaz said:

I dunno. Manziel didn't look anywhere close to being ready for the NFL. Problem is, at #22 overall you expect the guy to at least show he's a little ready. It's whatever, I expect him to play better the next 2 but I can't see him really figuring out how to play QB in the NFL in 1 or 2 weeks. I'd be a little more confident if he was able to figure out just ANYTHING the bengals defense was going to do. Also, he hasn't removed any doubt from the many who feared he couldn't play in the pocket.

What Hoyer has shown has been really good, for some reason he regressed on footwork and decision making though. A lot of phantom pressure since Mack went down.

Call me crazy and judgemental and hateful and spiteful, but I don't see Manziel performing well enough to guarantee himself the starting job next year. All he can do is prove me wrong...or right.

@tiamat63 said:

Oh I have a feeling Hoyer will be with the Browns next year. No way that he cashes in with a large payday in free agency after his performance down the stretch.

@tobalaz said:

Welcome to the NFL.

Hoyer was given a chance by the front office and coaching staff.

Hoyer WAS NOT given a chance by the "gotta have a qb controversy in Cleveland because that's all we know how to write about" local media and every fan of that 1st round qb smell.

He came in, won games, played with a contract situation looming over his head, played with media saying it's time for Manziel every time he made a mistake, played with ungrateful assed fans calling into sports talk radio stations and tv programs saying the best thing for this team would be Hoyer getting injured for a couple of games and us seeing what we had in Manziel.

It's damn near impossible to keep your head on straight when you're THE LOCAL BOY and hearing how your own want to see you injured just to get a glimpse of Johnny Frodo.

To make matters worse, he's got to deal with losing his probowl center and tightend! If Johnny tanked mid season those would have been the first 2 excuses out there!

Those of you that remember me should know I've always been an advocate of how important the te is to a qb and running game because the te is a safety outlet for the qb, and a great te will pull a safety for coverage helping your wr or get an extra lb or a lb gets yanked for another corner or safety softening up the middle for your running game, and in the RARE cases, get the best corner on the D REALLY helping your other wrs.

Wow!

This state is so freaking ignorant we deserve the crap we get.

Just because the Pro Football Hall of Fame is located here doesn't make us or our media smarter then any of the coaches or front offices.

@mark-o said:

The only thing Manzidiot did well today was not getting stuck under the flag before the game...

Is he tall enough to get stuck?

@browns23 said:

Did anyone else feel like we abandoned the run too soon today? I mean we only had 38 offensive plays, but we gotta run the ball under center a lot more. That pistol bullshit is not working whatsoever.

Run? No. But totally agree on the Pistol.

While I thought it would be the big formation difference between the Hoyer game plan and JM's, I also thought it would be more effective under JM. Clearly it was not.

@clevfan4life said:

I think both West and Crow are dinged slightly.

Been thinking this as well... particularly about Crow. Since he was listed as having a knee issue, he hasn't had a good average.

Yesterday West looked like he was running the better of the two, then he disappeared.

@browns23 said:

There were a lot of 2nd and 3rd & long so you gotta throw more.

@browns23 said:

yup. I also wish they would have waited to get rid of Tate till the offseason. I think both West and Crow are dinged slightly. I agree you can't keep all 3 long term but Tate must have been some kind of asshole to cut him and get nothing for him.

@babernakle said:

Ill be honest I like hoyer I hate Johnny and everything he stands for this give me gratification for nothing generation. hoyer might take use places given a real chance and maybe not but this I know manziel is nothing but a bust at best, but hoyer can bridge the gap. And remember hoyer faced a better team last week and played better by far with the same team. But this weak also proved that our receivers are not getting the job done.

Hoyer played like a complete asshole last week and that's why we're in this predicament. He stunk of shit. Also he had a LOT of help from a defense that didn't show up today.