@tour2ma said:

Basically both lines need to be addressed. Defense (my lips/keyboard to Gods ears) that monster 3tech I crave to see and a quality swingman or two along the Oline.

Seymour isn't that and McQ can get doubled fucked at SeaWorld by Shamu for all I care.

Bottom line...

I see Pet's D system not needing the talent level that the ZBS does to be successful... not D-line.

I see no comparison between O-line and D-line drop offs from starter to back-up. On the O-side it's a fall off of the 20th floor; on the D-side 2nd floor... 3rd floor tops.

If you add LBs to the argument, I'll argue it is greater than D-line, but still less than O-line.

@tour2ma said:

I guess my point is that we have needs at starting positions and we have needs in terms of depth....and I see O line as needing an upgrade in depth and some other positions as needing upgrades at starting positions.....

And I think using your highest picks to add depth and using lower picks to add starters is kind of backwards.....so, a 4th round DT or LB isn't likely to make this team, but a 4th round OL or WR project just might.....

So, in my little world, we could conceivably get a starting LB and DL in the first.....and improve both these groups talent and depth wise...

Then pick WR and OL in the 2nd-3rd rounds and still have a good chance of getting starters....meaning our first 4 picks have a good chance of HELPING us immediately....

But, If we reverse those picks, I see us getting more like 2 starters(wr/ol) and some DL & LB's that are about the same as we already have.....

@secondwave said:

Gilbert was also not on anybody's radar for us. The list of guys we passed on this last draft is mindnumbing. Look I dunno yet about this draft, I don't know who's likely going to be available. If there's a stud OL prospect there at 12 we kind of have no choice....but if the no brainer guys are gone than "maybe" we should think about loading up for the 16 draft, just saying. I really want us to have a shot at Bosa. I see better fundamentals out of him at this point in his carreer than Watt. Completely adaptable to either 3-4 or 4-3.....I mean just a complete player. I hope the Bucks win it all this year but have a quiet 16 season so Bosa falls out of the top 5. Maybe he can get a little tweaked hammy or something. Yeah I know that's sacrilegious as an OSU fan but I'm a Browns fan first and I really want to see that cat in a Browns uni.

@mudfly said:

... considering the depth on our D-line, we will have to pick a difference maker early if he has any chance of becoming a starter and actually improving the line play.....the better(and deeper) we become, the harder it is to find players that are upgrades

Not that the DL needs outweigh the O line needs....But to me, it appears we can improve our O line with later picks, while that option isn't really available with D line.....

I can see a 2nd-3rd round OL pick making this team and possibly starting....but, with D line, Im not so sure there is one there who will improve us or start over our current players...

So we are so deep in the D-line at such a high level that only a top 12 has a chance of upgrading that unit??? Rubin?

We can improve our O-line depth with later picks, but not our starters. Sure, late rounders can step in and start (We passed on a late rounder last year that could have helped us immensely, he said as he banged his Seantrel Henderson gong one last time), but that's not an everyday occurrence. For every Henderson there are a dozen McDonalds and Seymours.

My point is that our greater-est need after QB is O-line depth... but maybe it's greatest-er.

@tiamat63 said:

Apologies, but when mentioning injuries upon the Oline - the first name into anyone's mind is Mack.

None needed or wanted. I just wanted to emphasize that O-lines are more flexible than needing a HQ Center to back-up a HQ Center.

@clevfan4life said:

Huh? Is this the defeatist attitude most Browns fan have learned to adopt throughout the years? Or are they born this way? This isn't the NBA where only the top 15 picks will likely make an impact. I don't see how anyone drafted in round 1-3 will fail to make an impact.

Gilbert was damn-near useless this year and he was a top 8 pick... just sayin'.

@tour2ma said:

Apologies, but when mentioning injuries upon the Oline - the first name into anyone's mind is Mack.

@texasag1969 said:

I agree with this........and considering the depth on our D-line, we will have to pick a difference maker early if he has any chance of becoming a starter and actually improving the line play.....the better(and deeper) we become, the harder it is to find players that are upgrades

@jbluhm86 said:

Probably because our defense ranked dead last out of all teams this year in run defense, allowing an average of over 140 yards rushing per game. Or maybe the fact that the teams we play next year have some of the best running backs in the game, including Le'Veon Bell (twice), Marshawn Lynch, Jeremy Hill (twice), Jamaal Charles, Frank Gore, etc, that will fucking CRUCIFY us unless we get some serious additions to the D-Line. Take your pick.

Yeah...Im seeing us needing a real monster on the line and the only ones good enough to make a difference are at the top of the draft....

@tour2ma said:

Nothing you said was wrong, but I think that is "analysis light".

Like I said... it's hard for me to understand any case for our D-line needs outweighing our O-line.

Not that the DL needs outweigh the O line needs....But to me, it appears we can improve our O line with later picks, while that option isn't really available with D line.....

I can see a 2nd-3rd round OL pick making this team and possibly starting....but, with D line, Im not so sure there is one there who will improve us or start over our current players....

Same goes with LB....our guys look too good for a late rounder to beat out, so I think lb is next

but at WR not so much....I think out of all the need positions, WR is the most likely to be improved with later picks

@clevfan4life said:

I'm starting to think that we might be picking too late in this draft. If we were in the top 8 there might be some impact players. But I'm starting to think we should maybe trade down and get ammo for the following year. We should really see if we could possibly make a run at Bosa.

Jff and/or Gordon, coupled with another 1st rounder might be enough to move up into top 10 territory

So...in the end....and considering the talent available and the amount of talent we already have....I think the best option for picks to be upgrades over the current starters means....

DL and LB should be earlier picks....(cause the later picks wont start or even make this team)

OL and WR should be later picks....(cause there is more draft depth here and the later picks still have a chance to help us)

@walterwhite said:

Ummmmmm, no. Not even close to JJ Watt. But then, no one really is. Try another D player comparison other than white guy playing DL.

@tiamat63 said:

For me it comes down to the total number of injuries. Our Dline was also under performing well before said injuries. More bodies that may or may never get back to 100% form andstay that way. Plus, I don't see any center in this years draft being BPA @ 12 or 19. Dline on the other hand, I can see.

A top 20 Center has nothing to do with anything. We don't need to get as specific as drafting a Center.

@walterwhite said:

FWIW, Walterfootball has BOSA going 1st overall in their updated 1/3/15 mock: http://walterfootball.com/draft2016.php

It's a 2016 mock... and it's not worth the paper it's not written upon. At this point even 2015 mocks are ludicrous.

@tour2ma said:

FWIW, Walterfootball has BOSA going 1st overall in their updated 1/3/15 mock: http://walterfootball.com/draft2016.php

@tour2ma said:

For me it comes down to the total number of injuries. Our Dline was also under performing well before said injuries. More bodies that may or may never get back to 100% form and

stay that way. Plus, I don't see any center in this years draft being BPA @ 12 or 19. Dline on the other hand, I can see.

And please stop with the Schwartz replacing Greco nonsense...

@lbc-mike said:

Not unless the Browns move him. They picked up his 2015 option.

@tony_shalub said:

Were were talking 2016 and loading up to make a run at him.

I seriously see JJ Watt potential in Bosa. Completely changes the dynamic of a defense.

@clevfan4life said:

I'm starting to think that we might be picking too late in this draft. If we were in the top 8 there might be some impact players. But I'm starting to think we should maybe trade down and get ammo for the following year. We should really see if we could possibly make a run at Bosa.

@walterwhite said:

He's probably going top 3 if not 1st overall. It would take a hell of a ransom.

Bosa won't be available to anyone in the draft. He is only a sophomore.

@clevfan4life said:

He's probably going top 3 if not 1st overall. It would take a hell of a ransom.

A FA to consider is Fairley, the Lions DT. Unrestricted off his rookie deal at the end of this year. Injured his knee week 8 so he's off the radar somewhat.

@tacosman said:

I get what you're saying but I'd only be on board with this if Johnny had gotten us to 9-7 or 8-8. That would have meant that he actually put the party cup down and learned how to be a NFL QB. He doesn't know enough about the NFL game to have a say about what pieces would suit him best. Hell he has yet to show that he even belongs on the field. Personally, I'd like him to go into hiding and study all off season then at OTA's, Mini Camp, and Camp be the first one there and the last one to leave. I think that he is largely out of his element because he kept himself out of his element. If he does all that and still doesn't cut the mustard then it's obvious it's a talent thing. If he doesn't and things remain the same then it's obvious that he couldn't care less. I'd be more comfortable asking Hoyer this than JM.

@tour2ma said:

JF: "I'll take draft choices for $40 Alex"

Alex: "Andrus Peat"

JF: "Ah, who is the next QB savior in Cleveland?"

@jbluhm86 said:

Probably because our defense ranked dead last out of all teams this year in run defense, allowing an average of over 140 yards rushing per game. Or maybe the fact that the teams we play next year have some of the best running backs in the game, including Le'Veon Bell (twice), Marshawn Lynch, Jeremy Hill (twice), Jamaal Charles, Frank Gore, etc, that will fucking CRUCIFY us unless we get some serious additions to the D-Line. Take your pick.

Nothing you said was wrong, but I think that is "analysis light".

We started with a new scheme that we were told would take until at least game 6 to learn. Almost on schedule the D came together and then the injuries started and never stopped. Every D-line starter missed time as did most of our LB crew... some were hurt twice. We had to start names that were not even on our practice squad at the beginning of the season, just to have enough bodies.

Contrast the above accounting with an O-line that started off well, rapidly rose to acclaim and then was essentially undone by one player going down.

Like I said... it's hard for me to understand any case for our D-line needs outweighing our O-line.

@tacosman said:

All I'm saying is that if you spend a first round draft pick on your qb, it would make sense to then spend your next first round pick on a player that goes well with the style of your first round qb. This is common sense.

No. What you said was "ask Johnny"... and that is a whole other level of stupid. Which is hard to believe possible when you start with it's Johnny's job.