0-1

1-1

1-2

2-2

3-2

3-3

4-3

5-3

6-3

6-4

7-4

7-5

7-6

7-7

7-8

7-9

@pumpkin-eater said:

Uhhh no they were in sole possession of first place after they beat the Bengals.

From Thursday to Sunday? The browns were in first place for 4 days! We're back!

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

A misrepresentation of facts. The Browns were in first place for all of a week, a position they didn't even hold outright (tied with Pittsburgh). It wasn't until Mack went down and Hoyer lost his cool. It was one week.

That's all from memory, I don't know how true it is. But I do know that they weren't division leaders all season up until Mack went down.

Uhhh no they were in sole possession of first place after they beat the Bengals.

@the-gipper said:

Essentially isn't the same as in. You can't essentially win the Super Bowl. You're either in first place or you're not. They were not. The AFC North was so muddled this season that one game was the difference between first and last for a while...so being essentially within one game really didn't mean much of anything.

Mack went down in October, they didn't take first place until the first week of November. I'm going purely from memory here, though. But I'm fairly sure Mack wasn't active when they beat the Bengals and beating the Bengals is what launched them over them into first (with Pittsburgh).

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

A misrepresentation of facts. The Browns were in first place for all of a week, a position they didn't even hold outright (tied with Pittsburgh). It wasn't until Mack went down and Hoyer lost his cool. It was one week.

That's all from memory, I don't know how true it is. But I do know that they weren't division leaders all season up until Mack went down.

good point. Let's not cry like bitches (like junkyard) but let's not sugar coat it either.

WSS

@the-gipper said:

A misrepresentation of facts. The Browns were in first place for all of a week, a position they didn't even hold outright (tied with Pittsburgh). It wasn't until Mack went down and Hoyer lost his cool. It was one week.

That's all from memory, I don't know how true it is. But I do know that they weren't division leaders all season up until Mack went down.

@vagitron said:

@the-gipper said:

Gordon got more yards and TDs in 14 games than Brown did in 16.....with bad QBs, not Ben Roethlisberger.

Gordon has more talent.....not that Brown is not talented.

But, yes, that talent does no good if it isn't available.

Gordon in our offense would not be as productive as Brown. Brown is better after the catch, has the deep speed and the crazy catch radius. Gordon did not have more TDs as brown finished with 13 and Gordon finished with 9. Gordon had a higher ypc average but also had more games in garbage time. Brown had 129 catches vs Gordon's 87. Gordon is very good if he can stay on the field but he's not better than Brown. Brown also had a punt return TD.

@vagitron said:

Gordon got more yards and TDs in 14 games than Brown did in 16.....with bad QBs, not Ben Roethlisberger.

Gordon has more talent.....not that Brown is not talented.

But, yes, that talent does no good if it isn't available.

@the-gipper said:

@vagitron said:

Gipper don't talk about facts when you never present a single one when debating. Your thread on the division was 100% opinion and backed up with absolutely nothing.

Yea? And that is EXACTLY what you do.....bring your biased opinions into every one of these conversations.

Beachum graded out as the 6th best left tackle this season and we got him late in the draft.

Who does the grading, your third grade teacher.........and even if he did grade out so well.....the Browns Left Tackle graded out at #1.....so, like I said, the Browns are more talented.

You want to do something impressive? Replicate your division thread with facts and stats backing it up. As it stands you are no different than every other arm chair quarterback. You really really think highly of yourself don't you? Lol

Since that was YOUR idea....you do it..... Why should I do your work for you? You want to refute my arguments.....bring your own ammunition. Bring whatever unbiased source you want into it....not your opinion or some Bullshit Steeler home data base.

Edit: and if the linebackers are close then the offensive line is also close. you lose everywhere on offense otherwise.

The offensive line isn't close....when healthy....Thomas and Mack are like 1st team All Pro, and Bitonio was rated excellent by one source. (that is not to say that Pouncey/DeCastro aren't good....just not quite as good......but I do think your OL was very well coached this year)

As for offensive skill players....yes, a healthy Miller is better than an injured Cameron....(but a healthy Cameron is better) A non-fucked up Gordon is better than Brown (but of course Gordon is fucked up). As for the 2d/3rd WRs.....one source (PFF I believe) actually had the Browns WRs...Hawkins and Gabriel) rated better than the Steelers 2/3s. You will to make some inquiry into that when you produce your results. Bell, yes, obviously over Tate (though that was not quite so clear before the season started). And of course BR over Hoyer et al.

The defensive lines are also close and that's without the potential of tuitt.

No, not really, not when healthy.....but again, the Browns lost at least half of their DL rotation to injury.

You win in the secondary and that's really it. I couldn't imagine the steelers with all that cap room. We may have a bunch this season, if things go like i think they may go.

Offensive skill players and LBs....that is it in favor of the Steelers.....but that is enough.

In case you had not heard: Quarterbacks matter.

I don't have the time right now for a post of that magnitude but j can certainly start putting something together. Why is Josh Gordon better than Brown? He's taller. Didn't Brown just finish tearing up the league? Gordon can't stay in it, something you acknowledge. Gordon is not better than Brown. He's in the same tier talent wise.

@the-gipper said:

No. It is the Bengals/Browns/Ravens.

Do you forget that until Mack went down and Hoyer lost his cool that the Browns were in 1st place....and looking pretty good after annihilating the Steelers.

Do you forget that the Bengals had the division lead up til the last game?

Do you forget that the Ravens beat the Steelers in a playoff game...on their home field.

I watched with no surprise as the team absolutely disintegrated.

@the-cysko-kid said:

No. It is the Bengals/Browns/Ravens.

Do you forget that until Mack went down and Hoyer lost his cool that the Browns were in 1st place....and looking pretty good after annihilating the Steelers.

Do you forget that the Bengals had the division lead up til the last game?

Do you forget that the Ravens beat the Steelers in a playoff game...on their home field.

@vagitron said:

@pumpkin-eater said:

The steelers suck. 6-10 next year.

That would be the essence of a fraud

@the-cysko-kid said:

The browns aren't a fraud. They suck and it's obvious they suck. Come on I thought you had a little intelligence

Intelligence in a Steeler fan, are about as far apart as we are from Alpha Centauri.

@the-cysko-kid said:

Are you Retarded? I already said the browns are ass, the worst team in the division and going nowhere in 2015. Being better than the browns doesn't make the steelers that good. It's not the browns you have to worry about it's the ravens.

You just said they were the second biggest frauds. Where do the Browns rate? First biggest fraud then?

@the-cysko-kid said:

I'm sure you would think that but the bengals are the biggest frauds in the division. The steelers are the second biggest but not as much so as the bungles.

What are we betting the steelers are better than the Browns next sesson?

@vagitron said:

I really don't understand the stance on the Steelers being low on talent. I also think you are ridiculous to think they win because of Ben, Brown and Bell only. There isn't a linebacker on your team that I would take over any of the linebackers on the Steelers. I like Sheard but I liked him at Pitt. The jury is still out on Tuitt as he was just a rookie but on the defensive line I'd take only Taylor over McClendon. I'd take both Haden and Gilbert and would love to have Bitonio at the guard spot opposite Decastro. Joe Thomas is very good but at his contract cost I'll take Beachum. Beyond those mentioned guys there isn't a single solitary Brown I would take over any other Steeler. The Browns also bought a good brunt of the talent on the team.

Martavis Bryant could be the steal of the entire draft, Bell the same the season prior. Antonio Brown as well. See a trend here?

I'd take Gipson over Polamalu or whatever other twat you have at safety. Troy is old and he ain't getting younger.

@vagitron said:

Ben didn't have a strong game, no Bell AND Flacoo ball prevailed. Chuck it deep and hope for pass interference. I actually think the Ravens are the biggest frauds in the division.

I'm sure you would think that but the bengals are the biggest frauds in the division. The steelers are the second biggest but not as much so as the bungles.

@the-gipper said:

@vagitron said:

I really don't understand the stance on the Steelers being low on talent.

You don't understand because your mind cannot synthesize or assimulate facts.

I also think you are ridiculous to think they win because of Ben, Brown and Bell only.

Not Brown and Bell......just Ben.

Like I asked you before.....I will trade you straight up your QB for ours....and the Browns would be a far better team....they are a better team...shall I say more talented team...except for a few positions...QB being the most obvious and critical

There isn't a linebacker on your team that I would take over any of the linebackers on the Steelers. I like Sheard but I liked him at Pitt. The jury is still out on Tuitt as he was just a rookie but on the defensive line I'd take only Taylor over McClendon. I'd take both Haden and Gilbert and would love to have Bitonio at the guard spot opposite Decastro. Joe Thomas is very good but at his contract cost I'll take Beachum.

Who gives a shit about contract cost? Is it your money? We are talking pure talent here.

Beyond those mentioned guys there isn't a single solitary Brown I would take over any other Steeler. The Browns also bought a good brunt of the talent on the team.

Again, that is because you are stupid and a poor judge of talent.

Go back to my talent assessment of the entire division.....you will see that

Martavis Bryant could be the steal of the entire draft, Bell the same the season prior. Antonio Brown as well. See a trend here?

Yes, again, Steelers have the edge at offensive skill players....now that both Tate and Gordon showed to be fuckups to the first degree. Every other unit the Browns are better at overall....OL, DL, DB.....except perhaps LB where it is close.

Sorry, but I would not take your overall LB corps over Dansby/Kruger/Sheard...but its close. (expecially now that the master will not be at the helm)

Edit: and if the linebackers are close then the offensive line is also close. you lose everywhere on offense otherwise. The defensive lines are also close and that's without the potential of tuitt. You win in the secondary and that's really it. I couldn't imagine the steelers with all that cap room. We may have a bunch this season, if things go like i think they may go.