@tour2ma said:

I think depending on the circumstance some of those things become factors if money is close or the same. It may also be true of a vet taking a one year deal to prove himself so he can chase the dollars. Overall however because of the short and unpredictable career length they take the highest offers and I dont blame them one bit. There are also times where it appears a player took a lower offer when in fact the guaranteed portion of the offer was higher. Taxes is valid but that translates again directly to money.

@browns52 said:

listening to 680 the fan here in atlanta today, one of the hosts is from cleve so he had 2 guys on from cleveland also that cover the browns...they say pettine is already under the gun for his lack of disipline and the stupidity of him putting manziel in the final 2 games or so...there is also now an ongoing nfl investigation of plays being called from ownership to the field during games...they say that is why shanny left...he knows all about it but does not want to get involved..all i know is i'm glad we got shanny..at least he's with a better organization...they also said it is now known that the little midget did not know the plays at texas a and m also...and he partied alot...me thinks these fa's we signed last yr are probably thinking to themselves....wtf....no doubt about it...

Pettine's lack of discipline . . . Really? I don't even know what to say other than that.

I can see why Shanny would be pissed someone was second guessing his play calls (which were definitely worthy of second guessing), but maybe he should have sacked up, stuck around and proved them wrong instead of running away crying like a little bitch.

As far as Johnny goes we knew what we were getting and we rolled the dice . . . And we lost.

So I'd like to thank those two guys from Cleveland for going on another cities fan station and smearing a little more shit on cleveland. Fuck those two guys, fuck 680 Atlanta and fuck Shanahan.

@the-cysko-kid said:

Cameron made just over $650,000 per year during his time in Cleveland. So our investment in Cameron was basically nothing.

But you're right, letting him walk means we're getting nothing from him in terms of compensation.

However, we're also not taking on a $10 million/yr. contract for a gimmick receiver with a bad attitude.

Percy isn't an every down receiver. He's a shifty, big-play, make people miss receiver. Unfortunately, we have one of those already who outperformed Harvin in every single major statistical category last year. And then we have another one. And then we have another one.

Hawkins (4.34), Gabriel (wind-aided 4.27) and Benjamin (4.36) are all faster than Harvin (4.41). All have much higher YPC this season. All of them had just as many or more TD's than Harvin this season. Hawkins and Gabriel both had significantly more yards than Harvin this season. Benjamin, third best out of the bunch, had nearly identical yardage as Harvin, except half the catches and three times as many TD's.

Does that sound worth a 5 year/ $64,245,000 contract? Just so we can get some value from Cameron before he's gone? Even in his most friendly year, Harvin's cap hit is still 400% greater than Cameron's was this year.

Further, for as much as you want to shit on Cameron for his production this year, he still caught more TD's, had a higher YPC, and only 50 less yards than Harvin...while playing in three less games.

So, what it sounds like you want is for us to trade away a guy who's younger and costs pennies on the dollar for a concussion prone, less productive WR who costs 10,000% more....oh, and keep in mind we already have three guys on our roster with similar skill sets that cost much less and have also contributed more.

Sounds like a great FO move to me. You sure you don't work for the Jets?

Sometimes the best action is inaction. This is definitely one of those times. There's a reason why John Idzik was fired and Ray Farmer wasn't...this is likely a contributing factor.

@browns52 said:

Jackson was released and Phil wasn't offered a new contract..... So.....

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

One of your dumber posts.

Ok. How did he contribute in the 2014 season? Where did he spend the majority of it?

What are we getting in the way of compensation for him (most likely) leaving in free agency vs what we had invested in him?

@mudfly said:

But, THAT is the point.....all the other variables are never constant, so money wins .....almost every time....and, this year, we have a LOT more to spend than most of the "good teams".....

We parted ways there. It may be wishful thinking, but I think there are variables that override money, not millions, but a few points:

• Playing time
• Coaches
• Stability
• Franchise direction
• Players
• Taxes
• Roots

Maybe most of this list of factors can be summed up as "job satisfaction".

The second last is an Ohio hindrance vs. TX/ FLA, but an advantage vs. CA/NY.

@mudfly said:

i don't know if these guys knew what they were getting into when they signed with the browns....i do believe this team now has more problems than it ever had before...there is no disipline on this team...friggin belechek who have kicked manziel in the ass for his antics...firggin gordon, he'd be gone long time ago..yet here they are...listening to 680 the fan here in atlanta today, one of the hosts is from cleve so he had 2 guys on from cleveland also that cover the browns...they say pettine is already under the gun for his lack of disipline and the stupidity of him putting manziel in the final 2 games or so...there is also now an ongoing nfl investigation of plays being called from ownership to the field during games...they say that is why shanny left...he knows all about it but does not want to get involved..all i know is i'm glad we got shanny..at least he's with a better organization...they also said it is now known that the little midget did not know the plays at texas a and m also...and he partied alot...me thinks these fa's we signed last yr are probably thinking to themselves....wtf....no doubt about it...

@walterwhite said:

i really hate to tell you this, and you are correct about cameron wanting to leave, but if we have another yr or 2 of the same shit, you will see joe thomas, probably haden and others do what dq and phil dawson did...really, i think even though these guys were nice guys in that they never complained publicly, inside they were probably bitching up a storm...you'd have to be friggin crazy not to if you want a chance to win a championship...cause it ain't happenin here in good ole cleveee..unfortunetly..

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Id agree that.....all things being equal contractually.....then, yes, Id choose to be on a good team or in nice weather every single time.....of course, who wouldnt..?

But, THAT is the point.....all the other variables are never constant, so money wins .....almost every time....and, this year, we have a LOT more to spend than most of the "good teams".....

I also think Framer isn't the type to get in a bidding war to score the overpaid big name superstar, when he can sign very good-excellent players at a much more cap friendly price.....and those, less than high profile guys, are gonna be available to teams like us in spades...

@mudfly said:

I think that the "no player would come to Cleveland thing" has some validity to it.

If you gave 5 free agents exactly the same offers from Jacksonville, Cleveland, San Fran, Seattle, Miami and New York...it would be pretty tough to get any of them to come to Cleveland.

When all other variables are constant, wouldn't you rather choose a team that gets you a better chance to win a championship or a team in a larger market or nicer climate?

But...yes, it's normally all about the Benjamins.

EDIT: Technically, Mack chose Jacksonville.

@jcam222 said:

yep...I agree with you Jcam....players usually go for the money....Plus, I dont know where people get the opinion no one wants to play here or we only get the left overs.....total misnomer....

If you recall....just LAST YEAR.....we(and Denver) were the hot team on day ONE......and, as far as I know, signed everyone we legitimately went after......

Dansby, Mack and Whitner were all considered "top" free agents.....yet they chose Cleveland....and fast, too

Dansby, Whitner and Hawkins were all on winning teams too....yet, they chose Cleveland.....

SO...BASED UPON LAST YEAR ALONE......we got who we wanted on DAY 1.....not some left over dregs.....

But....let's not let the facts get in the way.....carry on....

@jbluhm86 said:

100% inaccurate statement. The majority are about the benjamins. As a matter of fact I was listening to a discussion with either Gannon or Tucker and they made it clear that most players are going to take the highest offer. The exception to the rule sometimes is a vet who hasn't got a ring taking less to go where he might get his last hurrah.

@the-cysko-kid said:

One of your dumber posts.

Realistically......Cameron has better #'s than Harvin in every way and any GM knows that, at the time of the trade offer, Cameron was the higher quality player with greater value(by a mile)....and we needed a TE, not another small receiver....esp one who was getting dumped mid season due to "distractions"....(like we need more of THAT)....

So, without hindsight, you're saying you would give up your uninjured Pro Bowl tight end, for an undersized receiver who's team is getting ready to cut him.... and one with worse numbers?????....why???(and dont say concussion/injury, cause that hadn't happen yet)

That makes zero sense.....

@the-cysko-kid said:

what would we do with Harvin?......Gabe and Hawkins are identical to him in size and speed, except they have better #'s and aren't head cases....

So, adding ANOTHER troubled smurf to our bench would help how?....

@tour2ma said:

I see similar things......to me, he's just a "specialist", which is the new term for "one dimensional".....

Ive always thought of TE as a hybrid wr-ol type of player.......with the power to block and the athleticism to catch and run.....

He's always been missing the power part.....making him more of a large(slow) receiver, than a complete TE....

Of course, catching lots of long passes gets you all the popular stats.....while being a solid blocker gets you rushing yards and an average label.....

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Cameron has the possibility of being elite when he's not injured.

I am not sure that I know what you mean when you talk about the "contract being heavy". Incentive laden?

While the concussions do concern me, after three years we shouldn't have to qualify his potential. He had one great year.

Of greatest concern is that when I watch 2014 footage of Cam vs. top fluidity TEs like Graham and Davis and even Gates, and I do not see their level of fluidity. I thought I saw it in 2013, but not in 2014.

I watch 2014 footage of Cam vs. top power TEs like Gronk and Witten and Pitta and Olsen, and I do not see their level of power. No surprise as it's not really Cam's game.

I see a hybrid that's now not close enough to the top in either element to pay what he may be wanting. I see that in Thomas.

@rooster-dick said:

You guys are forgetting... .nobody wants to play here!

^ This. This is why I don't really pay attention to the FA rumor mill. Until the Browns actually gain back credibility by placing a comptetive and sustainable product out on the field, we won't be drawing in very many big name free agents, regardless of how much coin we throw at them. The few Haynesworths in the league aside, the majority of players are not just all about money; they want to play for franchises that are stable and have a winning culture, neither of which the Browns have at the moment.

@bob806 said:

That is the key. I don't mind what we pay a good player. It all works in to the cap one way or another. The key is Camerons health. The problem with concussions is once you show a history, it becomes more likely you will have them again.

I don't know if we can afford to keep a guy who is likely to sit 4-5-6 games a year following league protocol.

I like the guy, I am just not sure he is going to have much of a career moving forward. How many more concussions can he sustain before he decides it's best to retire? And who could blame him? The thought of dementia at the age of 78 is scary enough, let alone at 55. Look at Bernie, he is punch drunk and how old is he?