@tour2ma said:

oops.....gave you wrong score......it was -16.5(ouch).....will say their whole O line was in the negative(cept mangold), so a lot of it could be due to them performing poorly as an integral unit

@mudfly said:

wellll......he looks a lot like Schwartz, though worse.......very low run blocking scores paired with very high pass blocking scores for a total score of +0.5....one glaring issue is he lead his team in penalties....by a mile(though, this year, the same is true for JT)...

Thanks for the PFF reply.

Jets power run while we ZBS... so a low, Jets' run-block score would not necessarily scare me off... especially when paired with a good pass-block rating.

@tour2ma said:

wellll......he looks a lot like Schwartz, though worse.......very low run blocking scores paired with very high pass blocking scores for a total score of +0.5....one glaring issue is he lead his team in penalties....by a mile(though, this year, the same is true for JT)...

and yes, premium stats,.....couldn't live w/o em......a great way to see the real story behind all the popular stats.....interesting "facts".....ha!

For example, here's an interesting fact for anyone who thinks our LB's were the issue, while our D line wasn't the problem....

Bottom 5 Browns defenders(the worst 5 players, by score).....

Rubin.....-14

Fua........-12

Winn......-8

Bryant....-6.5

Taylor....-6.5

coincidence?.....I dont think so.......

Our best players against the run?

Sheard & Mingo(believe it or not).......Sheard has real nice #'s every year.....a quiet stalwart..

@mudfly said:

Colon sounds like a good one too......T/G instead of C/G......as long as he still has gas in the tank, then it works for me

Willie started every game at RG for the Jets the past two years. I've tabbed Willie in every FanSpeak FA sim I've done. What does PFF say about him?

Aside: Realized asking you about PFF ratings has become a pastime. Just looked and their Annual Premium Statistics looks reasonable for $26.99/ yr. Is that what you have?

@tour2ma said:

yep.....considering he's started every game since he's was drafted, Im only assuming his wants......though one of those wants is $3m, which I think we can accommodate....and we can leave the "beat out" part to him....though I certain that wont happen....(there's that driving competition thing again).....

Colon sounds like a good one too......T/G instead of C/G......as long as he still has gas in the tank, then it works for me

@mudfly said:

... Raiders say they are gonna let him test the FA waters.....word is he's looking for $3m.....

The main issue I see with us getting him are he probably wants to start...

Gotta like a guy who wants to play... If he'll settle for "compete", then maybe, but who on our interior can he beat out?

@gftchris said:

We had issue in the interior because Mack was injured. Mack, like JT, had never missed a snap, so wasn't considered an injury risk. There's no reason why this year, it isn't JT that gets injured. If he does, we all of a sudden can't protect whoever the QB is - Bitonio played OT at college, but there's a reason every report on him said he would have to move inside in the NFL. It's a bit ridiculous to think that a kid who has played a year of OG in the NFL can fill in for a future HOF LT.

Painter is the big unknown when it comes to OT subs. Measurables were great at Combine, but his combine is a distant memory now.

Bito has to be our de facto back-up at LT. You only have to see him move to see that. Yes, there would be fall-off, but how could there not be? What you have to reduce is the additional fall-off at RG should Bito move outside.

Wiesnewski would do that. So could Willie Colon. So might a few guys in the draft.

and no they don't have to be great instantly just better than the backups we had last year.

one in the draft and one in FA?

god forbid one is better than schwartz.....(like that could ever happen).

@gftchris said:

Correct....depth is a good thing(inside and out).....heck, we could argue that ANY position is at risk if the starter goes down. Im just trying to create an answer for the "first to worst" melt down the O line had last year....

and Im thinking if a tackle goes down, it would hurt us, but we wouldn't fall off the face of the earth like when Mack went down....

And if we dont sign a FA like Wis, then what?....draft 2 OL early, instead of filling D needs?....and then hope they are both instantly good?

I agree, we would have no interior issues if we sign the guy (and he comes as advertised).

@gftchris said:

I guess Im not sure what your saying.....so you're saying Wiesnewski isnt the answer to our inside issues???(cause thats what my post said)...

Dont think there is any player thats gonna fill all our needs......

And, yes, Bito can play tackle(Seymour too)....and no, he wont be HOFer Joe Thomas, but nobody will......he also wont be horrid like McQuistan or McDonald were, which was my point......

@mudfly said:

We had issue in the interior because Mack was injured. Mack, like JT, had never missed a snap, so wasn't considered an injury risk. There's no reason why this year, it isn't JT that gets injured. If he does, we all of a sudden can't protect whoever the QB is - Bitonio played OT at college, but there's a reason every report on him said he would have to move inside in the NFL. It's a bit ridiculous to think that a kid who has played a year of OG in the NFL can fill in for a future HOF LT.

Schwartz is a different case, and isn't an elite player, but is still a big upgrade on any of the OL we had filling last year.

@gftchris said:

Well, I would disagree to a point.....while we certainly could use an upgrade at Tackle, that wasn't the issue we had last year.

Bitonio is a natural OT and would certainly step in and serve as backup without much drop off if Schwartz or Thomas went down....heck, he's probably better than Schwartz straight up....

But last year we collapsed because we had no interior help and Wis would fill both those roles......

So, Id say he DOES correct the issue we had last year......

@tour2ma said:

Personally, I think he's the perfect pick up for us......played all 16 of 2011 as OG and rated out fairly decent......then 3 years at C, where he grades out even better......"above avg - but not great"......2014 was by far his worst year, with a -2 overall.....but he was +6 and +8 the other 2 years....

Apparently, he has now turned down 2 contract offers and the Raiders say they are gonna let him test the FA waters.....word is he's looking for $3m.....

The main issue I see with us getting him are he probably wants to start......other than that, I say he's worth the $, even as a back up, because he pretty much solves the OL issues on his own......

@mudfly said:

one guy who looks like he may come available via FA is Stephen Wisniewski....C/G from Oakland.....wold cost a touch more than a rookie, but brings starter quality at both positions(and good genes)......Im thinking $2.5 - 3m would get him...

Interesting name and not one I'd noticed on the FA list. Hurt his knee in late 2013, but came back to start all 16 last season. How does PFF rate him?

@westside-steve said:

Well he isn't horrible at tackle just not an all pro. I just assumed guard was a bit less demanding and it seems that tackles can move to guard with success. I remember Ryan Tucker.

No, Mitch is not "horrible" and, yes, some OTs have enjoyed greater success inside. For every Ryan Tucker there's an Oniel Cousins.

While a move inside reduces agility requirements due to the reduced space to cover, success is far from a given. Strength and/or leverage requirements are magnified and speed/acceleration requirements are equal or greater.

@tour2ma said:

No reason why you can't. Question is, why would you want to?

Personally I've never seen anything in him that makes me think he'd be more successful at OG.

Well he isn't horrible at tackle just not an all pro. I just assumed guard was a bit less demanding and it seems that tackles can move to guard with success. I remember Ryan Tucker.

WSS

@baconhound said:

While running the ball is a very effective way to control clock and move the ball you have to be able to throw the ball to keep teams honest.

.... And when this team was running the ball for 150+ a game the passing lanes were opening right up.

My theory is the only OT that is gonna replace Schwartz is gonna come 1st round. And THAT isnt our primary need on o line. Guard/Center is.....so we still have to correct THIS, so that means yet another high OL pick?.....

If we do that, then it leaves very little for D line, LB, WR, etc......

So.....for me.....OT early this year is a mistake.....

@westside-steve said:

Why can't we move Mitchell Schwartz inside?

No reason why you can't. Question is, why would you want to?

Personally I've never seen anything in him that makes me think he'd be more successful at OG.

@miktoxic said:

fixed it. (was raging war yesterday).

i like unsympathic's idea of replacing schwartz with someone better and keeping him as a backup lineman.

WSS

@miktoxic said:

fixed it. (was raging war yesterday).

i like unsympathic's idea of replacing schwartz with someone better and keeping him as a backup lineman.