@tiamat63 said:

I hear ya! And it's not like you can hold all this energy hostage. I was almost doing pushups between paragraphs.

I don't want the Warden changing the locks on me at home so I appreciate the warning about Speed Stack...

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Blow is serious business, good sir. Don't joke about it unless you intend on sharing.

@tiamat63 said:

or cocaine.

@flugel said:

5 Hour's are more like a 2... 2 and half. You think that's fun? Try half a bottle of Speed Stack.

@logicisforsquares said:

That's freakin funny! Sorry folks, I thought this 5 hour energy drink was suppose to pace itself over 5 hours. Man was I wrong!

"Sir, may I speak to you about a pressing matter that may be dange..." *splat*

@hoorta said:

RG3 got so drastically outplayed by Colt McCoy in 2014 that the only reason he is being named the starter in 2015 is the wounded ego of a man that once invested 100 million $ on the empty inner chest of Albert Haynesworth desperately wants to get 1 big investment. In the last couple of years, RG3 threw teammates under the bus when protection wasn't up to snuff. Well, wasn't he the guy that said he was GLAD to be going to Washington instead of Cleveland? Be careful what you wish for you football messiah you... The NFL plays a little more defense than that barn ball conference he came out of.

As for MM, I don't have extensive observation of him. I saw the beginning of the Pac 12 Championship where he missed 2 different give-me swing passes to RBs, which wasn't about to matter on the scoreboard for the more talented team. I also couldn't help but noticing that in the few games I saw him play the last 2 years - MM was MORE comfortable trying to run for TDs than throw for them inside the red zone. I never got the impression I was looking at the next Steve Young, who might have gone down as an epic bust if he never got the opportunity to get out of NFL hell in Tampa for a dynasty already in progress. There's other mechanical flaws like overstriding and things that may or may not be correctable at the next level. He's also used to multiple choice of mismatches to exploit all over the perimeter which can be a culture shock if he goes to a crappy team hoping to find 1 mismatch on any given pass play behind a line with suspect protection.

It might be fun to see what a Chip Kelly can get out of MM. He's the one NFL HC with the gonads under the acorn to get his team up to the line of scrimmage with his QB looking to the sidelines at the exact same pace he did this at Oregon. All it takes is 1 pioneer for the next trend to follow. The less than charming supply and demand of veteran FA QBs, should give some team in despair with their QB situation an escalated need to try to trade for a guy like Nick Foles. Is there a chance Kelly made the trade for Alonso to intrigue a defense looking for an absolute playmaker in their LBer Corps in a 34 D? If MM is Kelly's dream rather than his poker face, I can see him adding Alonso to Foles to get the #2 overall pick or future #1s. The only bad thing for MM is if he's already overthrowing RBs taller than Sproles - that's going to have to get corrected real quick.

There isn't any QBs in this draft that thrill me so I'd like us to continue striving to make this an easier place to play QB. Before the last draft, most of us we're looking forward to building the team around weapons like Gordon and Cameron. Mission accomplished as our running game improved considerably especially when our oline was 100% healthy. This year, we'll have opportunities to strengthen our WR in the draft and it may not even have to happen as early as round 1.

@tiamat63 said:

Well said!

Limited supply to a BIG demand at QB has been a huge part of our problem over the years. On the other hand, there's been years we had Donovan McNabb, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Riden&Rapen, Nick Foles, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady on our doorstep. I got the impression many of these guys were so far down on the priority list that our front office sent our cleaning staff to evaluate their workouts. The other part is we haven't always made this an easy place to come play QB for vets or inexperienced QBs...

As fans, it's okay for us to peg QB prospects wrong and bust chops about it after. As a front office well paid to research the horses they're betting on - the willingness to understand a Russell Wilson, Donovan McNabb or others mentioned is what separates the teams that will go places from the ones that never do. Try to imagine if we already had Russell Wilson or Nick Foles instead toilet papering a #22 overall that currently reads defenses like you'd expect Helen Keller to. Who gives a rat about arm strength if it comes from deaf, dumb and blind in the pocket?

Take McNabb for instance. The mock draft consensus all over the country (inclusive of this blowhard) said Tim Couch #1 regardless of the reality his only playbook at UK was huddle dirt. However, it was often said George DeLeone's Veer Option offense up at Syracuse was too unconventional to trust at the NFL level for a QB prospect. It only made sense that one of Favre's former offensive coaches (Andy Reid) remembered the offense at So Miss was very similar to the one McNabb came out of. Coming out of high school, Favre was more known for his rushing yardage surpassing 3000 yards than winning via his arm. While our higher ups were debating Akili Smith and Tim Couch in the 99 draft - McNabb went to the NFL team coming off the worst record. While all the brotherly love in Philly cried in their beers about the cruelty of no Ricky Williams, McNabb ended up leading them to the playoffs something like 9 out of his first 10 seasons, with 5 NFC Championship Game appearances and 1 Superbowl. Meanwhile the journey of Ricky Williams included a sabbatical leave from the NFL for marijuana while Philly would end up drafting a much better all purpose RB out of Villanova (Brian Westbrook) a few years later.

@miktoxic said:

God bless ya Toxic! Just a couple clarifications:

1) The only time this old man ever runs is when the Warden breaks out her to do list. Don't get me wrong, I love exercise - I could watch it all day.

2) "Scared" doesn't apply to any fans here that had to bear witness to the following rent-a-wrecks at QB: Mike Phipps,Todd Philcox and Paul McDonald. On some franchises, Hail Mary Pass can mean as little as surviving the snap or playaction without playing Santa Claus to the opponent UNTIL the throw. And that ain't good....

@hoorta said:

I get it, and I'm right there with you. I think three firsts is way too much to trade to move up 8-10 spots. However, I'd gladly give up both firsts and a second.

The thing is, if he were Andrew Luck, he wouldn't be available to anyone. The adage flying around here is that "[insert name here] isn't Andrew Luck, so I don't want him", but I bet most people here would trade both of our firsts this year for Wilson, or Flacco, or Newton. Hell, there's trade scenarios about us trading both of our firsts for Foles.

Aaron Rodgers wasn't Andrew Luck. Joe Flacco wasn't Andrew Luck. Ben Roethlisberger wasn't Andrew Luck. All of them had those, "yeah, he'd be perfect except for..." qualities. For Rodgers it was the system, for Flacco and Roethlisberger it was the competition. But teams took a chance on them and it paid off, to great fortune.

Fact is, there are very few college QB's who are "NFL ready". To me, NFL ready is akin to being a "Luck-type prospect". That talent is rare. Maybe once every 4 years. You just have to weigh the risks against the talents. I think Mariota's potential far outweighs his floor.

And, out of all of those reports that say he isn't "NFL ready", how many then go on to say that he has all of the tools to be a franchise NFL QB, he just needs to develop? And isn't that what McCown is here for?

In the most general of comparisons, I think Mariota compares very favorably to Rodgers in that they both are tall, athletic quarterbacks who come from a questionable system and took a majority of their snaps from shotgun. Tony Dungy also made this comparison.

Jim Mora- "He has everything you want to play at the next level...he's gonna be a great, great, great player."

Rob Rang - "Some might write Mariota off due to the offense he runs, but his skill-set projects well to the next level because he's a smart, confident passer who is just scratching the surface of what he can do."

Gil Brandt - "Mariota is a better long-term prospect than Jameis Winston."

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

That's exactly it TC.

@jafbf said:

Three #1's + a #2 . . . and maybe more - so that's #12, #19, and #43 this year, and then the #1 from next year.

That's the word on the street price to tag the #2 from the Titans.

Now add in the Heisman performances in the NFL :

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap2000000297440

Whaddya think ?

The RG III deal set the bar- and look where that got the Redskins. You look at the draft value chart- where the Browns sit it will take at least both firsts this year plus a first next year to move to #2. I see Mariotta as a taller version of Manziel, without the off-field issues, and same on field questions.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

True, and there are very few teams with the summon took that we have right now. Offering solely draft picks, Philly can't compare with us.

We're in the driver's seat. If TN wants to set the bar at 3 firsts + a second...walk away. However, there aren't other teams who have the same draft ammo we have this year.

Just because we have the ammo doesn't mean we should use it. Every report I've read declares MM to not be NFL ready. Andrew Luck he isn't-

>>and if we sell the pocket watch in order to buy the pearl studded combs<<<

But regardless of the greatness of the quarterback receiver combination they need to be in sync. I think these guys just get used to the rhythms that each other naturally exhibit. like playing with the same musicians for a long time. they might not all be virtuosos but you get a feel for each other.

WSS

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/03/04/2015-draft-marcus-mariota-oregon-scott-frost/

Confirms my biggest observation, that his Receivers are always wide ass open, thus the high numbers and completion %.

Winston in the best QB this year, and he's got too many off field issues.

Mariota just doesn't show me NFL potential.

@westside-steve said:

For sure there is some talent transfer. But, in my opinion, there's a ceiling on that. There's not one QB who can turn Syndric Steptoe into Randy Moss just like there's not one WR who could turn Bruce Gradkowski into Peyton Manning.

Again, it's a numbers game. Surround any QB with 10 talented offensive players and 11 talented defensive players and he'll reach his ceiling. That's obvious. But, one, that's hard to accomplish and two, there's often not enough time...especially in Cleveland. People are already calling for Pettine and Farmer's heads and then turned a 4-win team into a 7-win team in one season. Granted, those people are stupid, but enough stupid people being stupid together can influence big, stupid change.

Another problem is that, at some point, you're reaching a point of saturation when you're adding talent to an already talented group. Adding a first round pick to our offensive line this year isn't probably going to result in as much of an overall performance upgrade as adding a first round pick to our defensive line would. That's because, as a unit, our offensive line is just better than our defensive line.

Our biggest talent/production deficits are at DL and QB. Right now, we don't have a quarterback on our roster who was ranked in the top 20 last year. Our defensive line, on a similar note, finished 2014 among the worst 12 defensive lines in the league. That's what we have to address first. Not offensive line, not WR. QB and DL. Unfortunately, we won't be able to address both in the first round this year, so it's just about deciding who adds a greater overall upgrade to the team. In my opinion, that's the QB. Like Farmer said, you look for the guy who is directly involved in more plays.

If money were no object and we weren't the Cleveland Browns:

-Sign Suh (Top DL)

-Sign Cobb (Top FA WR)

-Trade 12, 19, and next years #1 for Mariota (One of the top QB's)

-Take Bernardick McKinney in the second (One of the top ILB's)

-Draft Lorenzo Mauldin in the third (solid pass rushing OLB)

In a more realistic world:

- Sign Terrance Knighton

- Sign Brian Hartline

- Draft Malcom Brown at #12

- Draft Andrus Peat at #19

- Draft Bryce Petty in the second

Bryce Petty could be this year's Derek Carr - a guy with all of the athletic talent in the world, coming from a questionable system, overshadowed by the bigger quarterbacks in the draft.

@westside-steve said:

I know, bud. Just having a bit of sarcastic fun this morning.

@tiamat63 said:

Replace shitty players with good players? That.... might have some merit.

Well that's not quite The point as I'm sure you know.

I'm saying Josh McCown on the Patriots would mean the Patriots would suffer but McCown's record would be better.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Replace shitty players with good players? That.... might have some merit.

WSS

Sounds about what the Browns are shooting for here. Minus McCown being a slightly above average QB.

Fact is, in a draft as such - Shelton takes premise over MM. Again, if there was that sure - fire, can't miss QB ... I'll trade my entire draft and then some.

If an Andrew Luck clone pops up next year, whatever franchise has the #1 pick, I'd offer my whole draft, the following years 1st, The Jake, The Gund and Lebrons first son.

@tour2ma said:

No.... that's our job.

Good effort, but there are many ways to succeed. It's just that none include bad players in key roles.

ADP = average draft position?

Or they will be forced to lower their price...

It does not look to me that the price is being driven by the need to make it worth it for TN to hand over the pick. The price will be driven by what it takes to get them to give the pick to you vs. the "other guy". Same scenario in which StL found itself in '011.

In an auction it only take to determined bidders to drive the price up.

True, and there are very few teams with the summon took that we have right now. Offering solely draft picks, Philly can't compare with us.

We're in the driver's seat. If TN wants to set the bar at 3 firsts + a second...walk away. However, there aren't other teams who have the same draft ammo we have this year.