@miktoxic said:

this is where you guys help me out cuz i'm too lazy to look someone up like starks.........

what would be the diff in price?

Starks' last contract was 2 years - $10 mil. Rubin's was 4 years - $24 million. Starks would likely command more guaranteed and shorter contract, but should be similar or cheaper against the cap.

For comparison, last year Starks counted $4 million against the cap while Rubin counted $8 million against the cap.

@miktoxic said:

you want a one year stop gap? bring in wolfork.

What's he been up to? Kinda under the radar since he tweeted out his goodbye New England... which is not easy for a guy his size.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

this is where you guys help me out cuz i'm too lazy to look someone up like starks.........

what would be the diff in price?

@miktoxic said:

it's not that (IMO) the browns don't want to make the big splash sign in FA, it's that their FO has a plan of how to do it and when. if adding a suh or a ilpatu would solve the problem overall and send them dancing into the playoff prom, i think they would have done that.

my friends and i had our weekly porch gang yesterday and were glued to the tv watching schefter and mort and anyone else who was picking up their phones and the biggest news between a giants, steelers and browns fan were the signing of hartline and vereen. my friend rob asked why his steelers and my browns never do anything in FA. i said look at the teams making all the moves.

raiders really surprised me by NOT signing suh. because at the end of the next 3 years when they still don't make the playoffs and their looking to cut salaries their names won't be on the top of the lists of all time sponge signings.

there is still plenty of time to sign some mid-level guys that will help fill the holes and build the roster. going out and throwing $30 mil guaranteed at one player who MIGHT help at one position does not put your team over the top when you have 10 other holes to fill.

you want a one year stop gap? bring in wolfork.

I'd rather have Starks. Two years younger, more talented in the pass rush, and costs just about the same. Plus he's experienced at both 3-4 end as well as 4-3 tackle.

@miktoxic said:

Raiders went the smart way. They got a more cost effective way of stopping the run and can now add a complimentary pass rusher in FA or the draft to help Mack. They solidified their oline, if they can get a decent LT and WR... look out. For the first time in a long time, there's hope in Oakland.

my friends and i had our weekly porch gang yesterday and were glued to the tv watching schefter and mort and anyone else who was picking up their phones and the biggest news between a giants, steelers and browns fan were the signing of hartline and vereen. my friend rob asked why his steelers and my browns never do anything in FA. i said look at the teams making all the moves.

raiders really surprised me by NOT signing suh. because at the end of the next 3 years when they still don't make the playoffs and their looking to cut salaries their names won't be on the top of the lists of all time sponge signings.

there is still plenty of time to sign some mid-level guys that will help fill the holes and build the roster. going out and throwing $30 mil guaranteed at one player who MIGHT help at one position does not put your team over the top when you have 10 other holes to fill.

you want a one year stop gap? bring in wolfork.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Per reports, Williams to Raiders from Cards. Also Curtis Lofton LB to Raiders from Saints.

I thought Lofton may be a guy to look at to replace Sheard if we lose him.

@miktoxic said:

er: see topic "build through the draft".

Which is fine. But we can't address every single position with a starting caliber player in the draft this year.

Free agency is supplemental. That's why I have zero problems with us not going for Suh or Cobb or Thomas. However, we will need to start bringing in mid-level, medium contract players for both depth and safety.

If we address DT, OLB, ILB, G, FB, WR and possibly QB all through the draft and get starters at each position, what happens if they all suck?

Then we have the same holes next season plus any new holes created by free agents leaving.

Build through the draft, supplement with FA. You can't focus on one and forget the other. Realistically, we could (and should) have added a medium level DL, a depth FS, and maybe a medium level G.

We don't just need to increase the ceiling of our talent, we also need to raise the floor.

This is actually a bit of a head scratcher. Not to overreact, but it doesn't seem like they are, in fact, doing anything.

@tiamat63 said:

Well, ESPN has Polian supposedly doing the FA rankings (at least his name is on the website)

And NFL.com is, after all, the official Website of the NFL.

So who are we to trust?

@the-gipper said:

If only either of those two sites were at all correct. Williams was much more stout in his responsibilities.

@the-gipper said:

yeah...but not really.....PFF has Williams at a very good +11.5(higher than any Browns lineman) and Rubin is a -14.3(not good).....and I trust PFF way more than ESPN.....

I would concede that he's close to Rubins play of 2 years ago though...

@mudfly said:

FWIW, ESPN/NFL.com have Rubin and Williams rated about the same....though Williams is younger.