@tour2ma said:

I'm with you on Bowe and would toss in Hartline. Don't hate either one, think they are solid vets, but I don't think that two possession receivers being thrown to by a below average QB really make a huge difference. I have made no bones that I'd like to see a hard nose D in Cleveland and taking a one year chance on Terrence Knighton and even a Ray Mcdonald may have been a bigger risk but a much bigger reward.

@mudfly said:

Agreed on all counts!

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

A lot of the people shitting over signing Bowe are the same ones who were shitting over us NOT signing Revis. In my opinion, this is a much smarter football move. There was a clear deficit at WR, much more than at CB, and we signed a solid veteran who is just about the same age for a contract MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper.

Revis, like Suh, was one of this FA season's "bright, shiny objects". He was always going to attract unwarranted desire regardless of practicality. I get that.

My reaction to Bowe is owed to some elevating him to nearly Revis/ Suh desirability. It seems to me to be a continuation of being overhyped from the time he entered the league. "Solid vet" is not a characterization with which I take issue, but he seems pricey and a poor value vs. other options.

@baconhound said:

Im sorry, my bad.....I actually thought I was.....(based upon your avatar, you 2 could be twins)

@baconhound said:

Mud again I'm not disagreeing with who is a better fit for the Browns. Just saying if you are evaluating talent Harvin has more than Bowe. I just when you made the comment that Harvin was a way bigger threat to his team you were saying that his talent wasn't there, i know I shouldn't assume anything, my bad on that.

And, to clarify, Im not debating Harvins potential or his talent.....I was simply replying to Unsypathetic(see, I got it right this time) who said Harvin would have been a better pick up for the Browns....period.

And I also was trying to protect Bowe....a little, I admit.....because there were comments like "he's terrible".....and "all he does is drop balls".....and "not run his routes"......and he would "slack off now that he has a contract".....

Which is all a bunch of fiction coming from someone who "apparently" has no clue......so I apologize for thinking it was you.....

Harvin has talent......but Im glad he's using it elsewhere....and would prefer to have Bowes "experience and maturity and professionalism"....all day every day......

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

He played 1 game in 2013. Injuries are surely another issue with Percy but let's not be ignorant fans, Harvin isn't being targeted as much as a traditional WR and we he is he produces traditional yards.

@mudfly said:

Mud again I'm not disagreeing with who is a better fit for the Browns. Just saying if you are evaluating talent Harvin has more than Bowe. I just when you made the comment that Harvin was a way bigger threat to his team you were saying that his talent wasn't there, i know I shouldn't assume anything, my bad on that.

@baconhound said:

Well at 11.5 YPC and 6.5 YPR he's had production

He's played a full season exactly once in his six years in the league. He's on his fourth team. Sure, we can talk about his potential all day. We can also talk about how he's a pussy, an asshole and can't withstand the rigors of a full NFL season.

@tour2ma said:

I hear you, Mud, but Austin filled the big WR bill last year and I just cannot see the added value in opting for Bowe.

Austin was a very necessary part of the offense last year. Hartline (or Bowe) will fill that void caused by Austin's departure.

Bowe's value, to me, lies more in his experience than in his potential. He's not going to be bringing down 100 receptions for 1,500 yards. He's not going to be a Pro Bowl receiver. He's not going to bring down 15 TD's.

However, he has experience and he's a solid veteran. The "player coach" aspect may be a bit overplayed here as of late, but Bowe brings something to the table - Pro Bowl experience as a #1 receiver in the NFL. Bowe will make tough catches, a la Austin. Bowe won't break off a route before the first down marker on third down. Bowe will recognize when defense floats cloud over his side of the field. These aspects are equally as important.

A lot of the people shitting over signing Bowe are the same ones who were shitting over us NOT signing Revis. In my opinion, this is a much smarter football move. There was a clear deficit at WR, much more than at CB, and we signed a solid veteran who is just about the same age for a contract MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Well at 11.5 YPC and 6.5 YPR he's had production

@tour2ma said:

They look a lot the same to me too.....and I would've taken him back for sure......

Haven't heard a single peep about him either...retirement?...injured?...doesn't like the Browns?....Browns dont like him?

just dunno

But Harvin???.....hahaha.....no way.....

Im not into "talent or potential", Im into proven production...and Bowe has a much more impressive and extensive history of it than Harvin does...

Also, the Browns needed a big physical receiver like Bowe, not another munchkin......Harvin just replicates Hawkins & Gabriel and we dont need yet another 5-8" burner type.....how does this add a new dimension to our corps?

And, with all the problems this team has experienced with drafting losers and head cases like JFF, Gordon and Edwards......why would we walk off that cliff again???.....especially for a guy who hasn't met his potential after 6 years in the league....????

So, I never said Harvin doesn't have talent(he might have boat loads of it).....just saying he doesn't use it enough.....and he's not the size/type/style of receiver this team was looking to add.....

@baconhound said:

You weren't responding to me.

Harvin is a bigger threat than Bowe offensively, whether or not he lives up to that potential or causes more locker room problems is the question. To deny his talent is just being Brownish (a new term developed for the hardcore fan that believes everything Browns is right and everything that isn't is wrong)

At what point does it stop being "potential"?

Brady Quinn has all the potential in the world. So does RG3. So did Ryan Leaf.

In my opinion, I would say that a person who's been in the league for multiple years and is going to his fourth team should probably stop being measured on potential and probably measured on his production.

@mudfly said:

You weren't responding to me.

Harvin is a bigger threat than Bowe offensively, whether or not he lives up to that potential or causes more locker room problems is the question. To deny his talent is just being Brownish (a new term developed for the hardcore fan that believes everything Browns is right and everything that isn't is wrong)

"drops" cant be looked at alone....the # of targets makes a big difference in how many drops there are, so I prefer to look at a better stat....like % of passes caught.....

But first, If it's just drops, last season Bowe had 7 drops......Here are a few others...Calvin Johnson had 7....Demaryous Thomas had 9....Julio Jones had 8.....Torrey Smith had 11.....Anquan Boldin had 10.....Julian Edelman had 11.....Kelvin Benjiman had 11.....Mohammed Sanu had 14........etc etc....

Last season, Bowe caught 66.7% of the passes thrown to him(which is top 32 in the league)......

Here are some names that catch a lower percentage......... TY Hilton, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, AJ Green, Larry Fitzgerald, D. Thomas, M. Colston, Mike Wallace, Brandon Marshall, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Mike Evans, Reggie Wayne, Percy Harvin, M. Sanu, Calvin Johnson, Torrey Smith, Martavious Bryant, Kelvin Benjamin, Vincent Jackson.....to name a few(there are many many more).....

So....the list above reads like a who's who of NFL receivers, yet they all catch a lower percentage than Bowe......so, there's that...

Finally.....guess who has the lowest catch rate in the ENTIRE NFL??????.......our boy Benji at 39% (youch)...so Bowe is a nice upgrade to THAT.... if yer askin me.......

1. They believe they know Dwayne Bowe better than most teams. It was Bill Kuharich who had a hand in drafting Bowe in 2007 when he was Kansas City's Vice President of Player Personnel. He is now the Browns Executive Chief of Staff, working with General Manager Ray Farmer, who was with the Chiefs from 2006-12 as a scout and in the pro personnel department.
2. The Browns believe Bowe is determined to show he is still a very good receiver. A change of teams will help. He was criticized in Kansas City for not producing enough to match the five-year, $56 million contract he signed before 2013. He was scheduled to be paid $15 million in 2015, and that's why the Chiefs cut him.
3. The Browns expected Bowe would be cut. They had him as their top target among available veterans. They wanted a big target, and Bowe is 6-foot-2, 220 pounds. They know he drops some passes -- he had seven last season compared to 60 catches. But they also believe he can make tough catches in traffic. Bowe also is considered an excellent blocker.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2015/03/cleveland_browns_notes_have_te.html

now catch the freakin ball!!!!!!!!!

@baconhound said:

So, you cant disagree with my disagreement with what you said?.......then I agree...

Id also agree that Harvin is the WAY bigger threat..........(to his team).....

@mudfly said:

While I can't disagree with anything you have written I will add when it comes to making plays at this point in time Harvin is the bigger threat.

@unsympathetic said:

He drops more passes than Harvin?.....really?.....how much do you want to bet?

Not a good player, so he'll slack off and pocket the cash???.......that sounds more like a character issue than a playing issue.....got any solid facts on why you think this is???......cause Ive heard the opposite in terms of his effort, work ethic and professionalism....

Harvin?....you mean the guy who has been cut loose 3 times in 2 years and has still never had a 1000 yd season?.....that guy?

The only superstar WR Ive ever seen that averages 600 yds and a dismissal each season....

Conversely, Bowe has more catches...more TD's....more yards....more ProBowls....for more years than Harvin..... Its not even close, really.....and, so far, he also has never been cut, traded, suspended or given away by his team......hmmmm.....tough choice there...

So choose to shoot yourself in the head or the chest between the two.

All Bowe does is drop passes and not run actual routes.

Bowe is not a good player.. he'll simply slack off and pocket the cash. and for the record, the cash is the same value as Percy Harvin - but for an additional year. Bowe is not and will never be Percy Harvin.. Harvin has actual talent. [Harvin 1yr/$6, Bowe 2/$12] Even Stevie Johnson [3/$10] is more talented for less money.

Should have signed Matt Moore and/or Christian Ponder instead of McCown.. those 2 are each better and younger than McCown.

@kvoethe said:

Wow. The guy came from an offense that didnt have a single passing TD last year. WTF?????

The receivers didn't have any. Charles, Davis, Kelce, and Fasano had plenty.