@skippinturtles said:

Draft violence!............I like it!

@tiamat63 said:

This was basically the premise of my defense analysis post....

just to add the that -48.6 score......the Browns bottom 5 scores were all DL.....and bottom 7 outta 10....

The worst 5 Browns defenders(by score) were:

Phil Taylor....-6.5

D. Bryant......-6.5

B. Winn........-7.7

Sione Fua....-11.4

A. Ruben.....-14.3

add Kitchen at -2.7 and A. Bryant at -3.4.....

Kind of says it all about the run defense.....though, NOW, they gotta decide if it was injury....talent.....or scheme.....

@vagitron said:

I know who he is and have been enamored with him since the senior bowl. I'd LOVE for him to be a Steeler but I know that's a pipe dream. My point was unless I was missing something he doesn't also project to de and with Taylor its just overkill for the browns to draft him. Unless they have no faith in taylor staying healthy. Shelton isn't a two down DT either. He's like ngata.

You're getting hung up on position labels that don't apply to Pet's scheme. It's a 3-4 that more closely resembles a 4-3 in many sets. That Big Phil was called a DE last year is exhibit A for what I am saying.

Totally hear you on the 2-down BS though. He's not fast but plenty quick enough to pressure up the middle and rack up a few sacks. Ngata was more explosive and faster, maybe even a bit stronger, and undoubtedly has better hands... but not a bad comparison. Being 2" shorter, Shelton may be slightly tougher to move.

@tour2ma said:

Phil's good every other year so I expect to see a lot of him in 2015. My issue is Kitchen. He's not a #2 NT IMO. With Shelton and Taylor in a 1-2 rotation there's position dominance on the field the entire game.

NT... best NT prospect in the draft.

@miktoxic said:

i'm hopin farmer pulls his best sonny weaver on draft night.

Just so long as he doesn't Instagram it, he can pull whatever he wants...

"
The Browns defensive line that combined to earn a -48.6 overall grade last season which featured only one defender with a positive overall grade"

all i know if i was a defensive minded head coach and we needed the center of our D line upgraded, shelton would be the guy.

i'm hopin farmer pulls his best sonny weaver on draft night.

@miktoxic said:

i myself would take shelton all day long considering you have to question whether taylor can last a whole season.

Phil's good every other year so I expect to see a lot of him in 2015. My issue is Kitchen. He's not a #2 NT IMO. With Shelton and Taylor in a 1-2 rotation there's position dominance on the field the entire game.

@vagitron said:

As far as Shelton is concerned doesn't he project at DT?

NT... best NT prospect in the draft.

@tiamat63 said:

Actually Phil fills quite well when he's the SDE.

Rubin is gone, Taylor is coming off injury and might not be back next year. Gives the Browns the ability to make sure Shelton's conditioning is top notch and gradually bring him along in the defense.

Is that not plausible?

I know Rubin is gone. Phil is huge for a de. I don't see them drafting Shelton.

@vagitron said:

Actually Phil fills quite well when he's the SDE.

@vagitron said:

Two firsts in dt's? If they were interested in Shelton i would think Taylor would have been moved and not Rubin.

Rubin is gone, Taylor is coming off injury and might not be back next year. Gives the Browns the ability to make sure Shelton's conditioning is top notch and gradually bring him along in the defense.

Is that not plausible?

@miktoxic said:

i myself would take shelton all day long considering you have to question whether taylor can last a whole season.

Two firsts in dt's? If they were interested in Shelton i would think Taylor would have been moved and not Rubin.

@mudfly said:

Gotta say.....I know of one person who reads em and replies.......everytime......on and on and on and on......endlessly....

All you old timers really get a kick out of yourselves. As far as Shelton is concerned doesn't he project at DT? You have Phil Taylor unless the team would put Shelton at end where I think he's out of position. Taylor sure as hell can't play de

@mudfly said:

yeah...I waffle on it.....very happy Im not the one who has to choose....

Part of me says get the dynamic LB first, cause he wont be there at 12,,,,,while theres a good chance that Shelton, Ray or Brown would still be there....letting you get 2 defensive starters, instead of one....

tough tough choice....brrrr

Ray? Shane Ray? I keep telling people not to be shocked if he's the first pass rusher off the board. I'm honestly not all that impressed with Gregory or Fowler. Atlanta plays a ton of 4down so it's a natural fit for them.

Part of me says get the dynamic LB first, cause he wont be there at 12,,,,,while theres a good chance that Shelton, Ray or Brown would still be there....letting you get 2 defensive starters, instead of one....

tough tough choice....brrrr

but, assuming both QB's are gone it'll leave you 3 outta 4 of Shelton -Beasley - Leonard or Fowler....choose your poison....

@mudfly said:

if any team were to do that deal it would be the raiders for sure....

the question is now though, if you could get up to 5 who do you take? what i've read from pettine is that the NT isn't 'his' #1 priority for the draft:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2410507-browns-draft-stock-watch-5-players-rising-and-falling-on-clevelands-board/page/5

By Andrea Hangst, Featured Columnist

Mar 27, 2015

Not that long ago, the Browns were considered one of the front-runners for the services of Washington nose tackle Danny Shelton. The Browns had moved on from Ahtyba Rubin, who had held down their nose tackle position last season, so it seemed only logical to add a young and large player like Shelton to join Ishmaa'ily Kitchen in replacing Rubin and improving the position.

However, that seems less likely to happen now, particularly in Round 1. Browns head coach Mike Pettine, speaking at the NFL owners meetings in Arizona, said that Phil Taylor will be the team's primary nose tacklethis season, backed up or spelled by Kitchen in the rotation. Last year, Taylor played out of position at defensive end before being placed on injured reserve in November with a knee injury.

This year, it looks like Taylor will be back to taking on double-teams in the middle of the defensive line. With him and backup Kitchen, the Browns no longer have an immediate and glaring need at nose tackle. Though they may draft defensive line depth, no longer does Shelton—or any of the top defensive tackle prospects—seem in the cards for the Browns in Round 1.

yep, it's from bleacher report so we all know it's just fluff, but it does bring up the question.

@miktoxic said:

yes.....trading 19 & our second for a top 5 kind of pick.......so, for instance, we get #4 from Oakland and still have #12......

heyyyyyyyyyyyyy....wait a cotton pickin second......oakland needs a WR and LOTS of picks....we could sweeten it with some JG rights.....(just their kinda player)

scenario #1: danny shelton (picks 12, 19 and 43)

scenario #2: a DT, OLB and WR

hmmmmmm????????

now if you're talking moving up to 5 getting that pick ANF having the #12 as well then that's different. you just better not whiff on those first 2 picks.

@clevfan4life said:

wait a sec, if all you were trading was the 19 and a 2nd rounder....for Shelton? Fuck yeah you jump all over that .

Gotta say I didn't think of this scenario.....always had #12 as the price to pay....BUT, Id give 19 and our second, assuming I still had 12.....yep...Id do that....

But then....looking at moving up into the top 5 or 6......I might get eyes for a Leonard or Beasley.....

@skippinturtles said:

Would you package the #19 pick and a second rounder for Shelton. Dude would would anchor the defense for a decade.

As someone else pointed out... Hell ya! Since the trade might well have to be as high as with ATL at #8 to bag Shelton, that would be fair value or slightly favoring us per the old chart.

But here's the kicker... we'd still have our #12 to trade down and it'd easily net us a replacement #2.