@flugel said:

I doubt DeVante Parker cracks the top 10. Also, there are so many holes in that St. Louis offensive line that I doubt the Rams go WR. I actually believe the Bears are more likely to go WR than the Raiders (who I believe will go with a defensive player). With that being said, I'm 100% sure one of the top 3 WRs crack the top 10 and I'm 50% sure 2 of them crack the top 10.

Best case scenario: Kevin White OR Amari Cooper + DeVante Parker available

Worst case scenario: only DeVante Parker available

FWIW, I think Devante is an inferior prospect in comparison to the other 2, and i'd look elsewhere if White/Cooper are off the board.

@jrb12711 said:

Understandable. And I join you in not wanting Perriman at #12.

Another train of thought is last year's first round gave a lot of teams some very immediate impact/help at WR. I think recent success at a position is the best way to buck a previous trend. In this case, I can see 3 teams that could very easily go WR before #12. They are Oakland at #4 (for Carr), St Louis at #10 (for Foles) and Minnesota at #11 (for Bridgewater). If that happens, I don't see us spending our #12 on the 4th WR in the pecking order when other positions will be offering us the #1 or #2 rated guy. If Parker does make it that far,

Where Perriman could come into play is if we add picks via trade back and get him somewhere near the back 3rd of round 1. In that area, I could also see interest in him from Detroit, Baltimore, Seattle or NE; especially if he clears teams in mid-first round slots held by Houston, Philly, KC, Miami, SF, and Miami.

If Shelton plus White, Cooper and Parker are off the board before #12 - how much is our front office tempted to trade back and add picks? I'm not buying that Farmer isn't a WR guy as much as I thought last year's plan prioritized running game (Bitonio & West) and pass coverage help (Gilbert, Desir, Kirksey) and various FA moves like Crow, Whitner, and Dansby stuck to the strategy. THIS year, Josh Gordon has parked himself again so the time is right to move forward. I'm sure Farmer wants nothing more than local media announcing he isn't a WR guy at all.

@mudfly said:

the one thing we cant argue is that Perriman is definitely climbing.....really fast too....

so, if nothing else, he may push some one else back that we could use... guys like Landon Collins, Todd Gurley, Trae Waynes, Maxx Wiiliams, AJ Caan, Eddie Kendricks and Cameron Irving could all move up higher(and some will for sure)......

As you later mention, Waynes looks to be the top ten threat there. Possibly Erving... The issue is more around who falls at this point.

@flugel said:

... Hub Arkush's Pro Football Now Draft Guide 2015.

Thanks for your ref.

@flugel said:

Interesting question, but I'd bet very good money that one of those guys is available at #12. It's very uncommon for 3+ WR to go in the top 10. I'm not crazy about drafting a WR at 12 but if for some reason Cooper is there it's a no-brainer pick for me.

@jrb12711 said:

I'd also prefer Cooper, White or Parker but don't you think at least 3 of the 11 teams drafting before #12 would too? To spend all my time counting on those guys is like planning my budget around winning the lottery.

I wouldn't take Perriman at #12; but I'd strongly consider him in a trade back toward the back end of round 1.

@tour2ma said:

Go to your nearest store that sells magazines. Find page 27 of Hub Arkush's Pro Football Now Draft Guide 2015. This page ranks the top rated WRs and lists their school, year (and other pertinent data like ht/wt/40/arm length/hand size that I did not include below):

1. Amari Cooper. Alabama. Year: True Junior.

2. Kevin White. West Virginia. True Senior

3. DeVante Parker. Louisville. True Senior

4. Jaelen Strong. Arizona State. Year: Redshirt Junior.

5. Brashad Perriman. UCF. Year: True Junior.

I'm one that likes to see the stats of all the seasons right next to the strong points and weaknesses of each prospect. This publication does a nice job of consolidating it all in a menu-like format. All 5 of those kids above are on 1 page; so it also makes for some nice compare and contrast. The author is Greg Gabriel who spent 32 years in various roles as an NFL Scout and Director of College Scouting. He worked with the Buffalo Bills 1982-1984, NY Giants 1985-2001, Chicago Bears Director of College Scouting from 2001-2010, Philadelphia Eagles Player Personnel from 2012-2013.

Is it possible he made a mistake and your sources didn't? Sure. Is it a showstopper? No. There's a bunch of measurables and variables that go on to each prospect's resume. Some of cyberspace draft experts have made errors too. The difference is they can correct them while magazines can't be corrected or updated with pro days once they've hit the shelves.

@tiamat63 said:

yep....sounds very reasonable to me.......and I think Waynes has good potential to be a top 10 pick too..

the others, while likely not top 10, still could fall in the teens......which can help us at 19

@mudfly said:

Of those AJ Cann or Irving to the Gmen would make the most sense.

so, if nothing else, he may push some one else back that we could use......

Id expect a few new names to creep up and get tapped earlier than people are predicting, simply based upon team needs.....and(hopefully) pushing one of our guys back.....

In addition to climbers like Perriman, gotta think the top prospects at their perspective positions will start getting higher consideration too.....guys like Landon Collins, Todd Gurley, Trae Waynes, Maxx Wiiliams, AJ Caan, Eddie Kendricks and Cameron Irving could all move up higher(and some will for sure)......

lets hope a couple make the top 10.....

@flugel said:

Thanks for showing me your line of thinking.

You're welcome...

No doubt... 40 time is the glamour measureable, but I think we are both saying it's over-rated unless it comes with other attributes.

That's twice now that you've emphasized "TRUE Junior". Where are you seeing this? Every Bio I have seen on Perriman says he's a redshirt Jr., e.g., Class/Draft Year: rJr/2015.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=91941&draftyear=2015&genpos=WR

As for progress... are you sure that's why Perriman's numbers are up? Versus say the prior year's #1 target graduating? My point, my caution being that you have to dig to see what is behind the numbers.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2015/3/31/8323753/how-antonio-brown-has-the-fastest-feet-in-the-nfl

@wargograw said:

You fucked up with your first sentence.

The most important aspect of receiver is hands. Pure and simple. You can be fast like Moss, as big as Megatron and run routes like Rice... if you have hands like Greg Little ? Doesn't mean a damn thing.

There's a guy in Houston that coaches just footwork. He's kinda revolutionary in that he focuses on feet so specifically. Anyway, he trains mostly college kids but he trained Le'Veon Bell last offseason and has had Emmanuel Sanders and Knile Davis in in the last month.

He posts Instagram videos of a lot of the drills being performed. Almost every person that shows up is SLOW through the drills. Even Emmanuel Sanders. Davis was really slow. But both blaze through it now and it's impressive.

Anyway, not to give any praise to a Steeler, but Antonio Brown showed up for his first workout and he was just as quick through the drills as Sanders, which is crazy because A. Sanders has been working out with the guy for a month and it was Brown's first workout and B. Sanders has more pure speed than Brown. Brown is a freak of quickness.

Anyway, Brown is regarded as an elite route runner, that's because he drops different footwork combinations on each route to keep the defense guessing.

Mike

yep, that's how much his stock is rising...............

(chirp chirp) lol

@tour2ma said:

The snippy ballbust was about the you like to type a lot. Hell no. It means I'm sucking at articulating my point.

Thanks for showing me your line of thinking.

Sometimes the strength of competition could be as bad as Jerry Rice playing the level of competition that Mississippi Valley State played where nothing he was going to accomplish at any workout was going to make more than the 1 team that rolled the dice on him use their first round pick on him. Then came the 40 teams that really made SF his only taker.

UCF has put some quality passing game personnel in the NFL whether it's Brandon Marshall, Daunte Culpepper (pre-injury). I think they beat Louisville in 2013 despite the Bridgewater to Parker connection.

I DO place some emphasis on the TRUE Junior thing if he's sporting progress in his numbers, up over 1000 yards receiving and at 20.9 yards per catch with 9 TD receptions. That's showing me upside being tapped without even knowing what kind of QB he was counting on. I also think it's important to see what 1 more year meant to a guys like White and Parker meant in terms of statistical progress, In a world where they bet on upside based on all the variables they've researched it's nice to see progress and upside unfolding. That's why I like this apples to apples of his stats up against top rated WRs in his draft class when they were true juniors beginning with Breshad first:

Perriman 2014: 10 starts 50 rec 1044 yds 20.9 ypc 9 TD

White 2013: 9 starts 35 rec 507 yds 14.5 ypc 5 TD

Parker 2013: 12 starts 55 rec 885 yds 16.1 ypc 12 TD

Cooper 2014: 14 starts 124 rec 1727 yds 13.9 ypc 16 TD (this is the only guy that kicks his ass numbers wise)

In a world where they draft what's projected ahead - I like this kid's chances as well as any of the WRs.

Everyone's going to have days an easier opponent fattens numbers statistically. Let's just say we can all prove a thesis if we want to. For some reason Parker felt compelled he needed to return for a senior a year after Bridgewater left while Perriman's best numbers came after Bortles departed. I don't know who had the better QB; but those videos of Perriman Woody shared sure had him making the best of a lot of underthrows. Seems like guys with the most access to film of Periman such as Cosell, Mayock, Kiper and I think McShay all seem to like him more than they expected to once they put the tape on him. That's what gave me a kick in the pants and intrigue about Perriman on top of thinking we had a better shot at him than other bigger named WRs.

@tiamat63 said:

Never a dull moment on the draft days we've been through Tia.

@flugel said:

The same that allowed Haslam to be cock of the walk, pick Manziel, then have the front office screaming "We had NO idea" 10 months later.

@mudfly said:

I wouldn't mind Parker at all. With Farmer, his 1st year plan was to focus more on strengthening our running game with Bitonio and West while also strengthening our secondary/coverages with Gilbert and a LBer like Kirksey that looked instinctive vrs the pass. I could definitely see the plan taking form.

I get the feeling he wants everyone thinking we don't need WRs this year and he's playing some real good pre-draft poker. His payment to FAs shows me he values the position while it sets up a perfect smoke screen for him to snag a WR talent like Parker in in round 1. Most GMs love it when they see that the public has no idea what they're thinking. Farmer too. Who saw Gilbert coming here last year in round 1 before the draft?

Shelton will probably last until #11 with our luck and then I think I'd rather go WR at #12 than the next best DT we're going to ask to play NT. I've seen film of Malcolm Brown that doesn't make me feel him at #12 while Jordan Phillips had back surgery in 2013 on top of his reputation for taking plays off. Eddie Goldman may be worth consideration for #19 but I haven't looked for any film to give you a gut on him yet. He has some intriguing scouting reports though.

@flugel said:

@flugel said:

Fair enough. me where they're coming from. It would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

That's my intrigue along with thinking this guy will be on our doorstep after we've added Shelton.

I agree its good to disagree because constant agreement, while agreeable, is boring....ageed?

And though Id be surprised to see a WR in the first, if there's gonna be one, Im thinking Farmer has eyes for DeVante Parker...

Considering he says he doesn't "value" wr as much as other positions, Farmer has been down to Louisville AND also had DeVante come here for a private workout.......which seems like a lot of interest if yer askin me.....

@tour2ma said:

LOL! Bastard! Just for that, you need another nap. Here it is that epic long post you complained about:

So much for me thinking we can snag Perriman in round 2 - here's a quick tidbit about the day he had yesterday: The big story Wednesday on the Pro Day circuit was unquestionably the blazing 40-yard dash put up by Central Florida wideout Breshad Perriman, a fringe first round prospect who may have successfully run into the top 32 selections by clocking in at roughly 4.25 seconds in the all-important drill.

Suffice it to say - he can jet.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you reject Cliff's Notes you're telling me you need Cliff Clavin.

@mudfly said:

Fair enough. I probably don't show this but I don't mind disagreeing with people especially when they do a nice job of showing me where they're coming from. It would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

40 times have always pushed people up in the nature of this beast. I remember Courtney Brown solidifying a number 1 overall draft status with his 40 time. Way back then, I was zeroing in more on Michigan's game plan to run at him rather than feeding his strength of backside clap downs for losses wheen many reach blocking schemes toward playside left him unblocked/unhinged altogether. Michigan chose to run right at Brown for positive yardage and long extended scoring drives that kept their defense off the field. Not much different than the NY Giants going at Bruce Smith's upfield moves off Jumbo Elliott's fanny for SB record long scoring drives of 11 minutes and 13 minutes in one of the rare times anybody has owned Bruce. To me that, that Michigan matchup foreshadowed what was going to occur at the NFL level with Courtney. It wasn't the injuries that held him back as much as it was the offense knowing where he's vulnerable up against where he can be dangerous. They didn't help but I had a body of work to go by. The ONLY time Courney looked like a 1st overall pick was when he faced a backup Tackle for Pittsburgh with the former Ohio State QB Graham holding onto the ball forever. We got 3 sacks. The reality was we never got our Pro Bowl pass rush until Jamir Miller replaced Courtney Brown with a hand down and the difference was huge.

When there's speed at the WR position, teams/OCs feel like they can dictate where they want the Safety to be when they're planning their passes for specific situations. While Mike Wallace was a disappointment in Miami, the results of Brian Hartline benefitting from what Wallace's speed did to his matchups wasn't disappointing at all. That's my intrigue along with thinking this guy will be on our doorstep after we've added Shelton.