@wpb-dawg-fan said:

So, let's look at this logically:

1. Several teams (KC/GB/etc) are going to the 3-4 defense...and lack the NT necessary for the scheme

2. Rogers has played at a high level in the 4-3 defense

3. Rogers is coming off of a Pro Bowl season on a BAD team

4. There is only 1 DT that is rated anywhere near him in the draft.

5. Only 1 FA DT has anywhere near his skills

Add all that up and Rogers is worth a TON on the FA market.

We can probably get a player and a pic for him...or multiple pics...including a mid to late 1st rounder.

The reality is if we trade him we still have Rubin at NT...and S.Smith is a NT (not a DE) so we still have players at the position. Add into that the availability of Raji a real possibility at #5....and I say we go ahead and trade Rogers.

Add into all that the fact he is a HUGE cap number...and the fact we are NOT going to be a playoff team this year anyway (so getting Rubin in more playing time would be a benefit) and I think trading the disgruntled player a very viable option.

Trade Rogers? What are you smoking man? If you expect us to go into the year with Shaun Smith and Rubin at NT, we'll put up a season that would make the 08 Lions look like the 2000 Ravens. Rogers is one of the only good players we have and I'm not in agreeance with trading him off for a couple draft picks which we'll probably waste anyway. If he truly refuses to play in Cleveland again, then we'll have to deal him, but without him we'll be looking at not only using a high pick on BJ Raji but also struggling through rookie growing pains for a couple of years while our Dline tries to find some identity.

@clevelandfanforlife said:

Didn't you read the real story? Mangini was talking to Eric Wedge and had his back turned to Rogers as he walked by. Mangini didn't even see him and he wasn't there all night milling around. He just popped in gave out an award and left. Man, cut the guy some slack..........................................Terry Pluto even said he didn't even know Rogers was in the room.

@dtbh said:

1. I think maybe Rogers just wants out of Cleveland and their 3-4, and always has. He's just found a couple of excuses.

2. Mangini is supposedly the kind of guy who won't go far to please his whining players, but he's "reaching out" to Rogers on multiple occasions?

I think it is more about Haynesworth's contract then wanting out of Cleveland.

@wpb-dawg-fan said:

I get Winslow, but there is no reason to think Rogers isn't gonna still be good in 2 years.

And if it take another 2-3 years for CLE to be competing, then this new regime is just as bad, if not worse than the last. We are still talking about a team that won 10 games in 2007. You don't win 10 games in the NFL, no matter the schedule, by accident.

@clevelandfanforlife said:

My thought exactly. We are in a rebuild mode and these guys are going to be either a problem or not able to play at this level in 2-3 years when we are ready to compete...so their best value is in trading them while they are worth something.

@clevelandfanforlife said:

Rogers wasn't supposed to be getting to the QB, but led the team in sacks. He can't make all the LBs better, Williams shoulder healthy, or the other DE that much better.

Winslow can't make DA suddenly accurate.

And no player could make RAC suddenly able to be a HC in the NFL

the winslow trade is a tough call, but probably not a bad one.....i wonder if they'll use the picks/money to make something bigger happen...

@riffer-x said:

Playmakers win in this league, and there is two of them right there.

i don't mean to be a jerk, but how much did they help us win this year? two or three guys can only do so much

@wpb-dawg-fan said:

So, let's look at this logically:

1. Several teams (KC/GB/etc) are going to the 3-4 defense...and lack the NT necessary for the scheme

2. Rogers has played at a high level in the 4-3 defense

3. Rogers is coming off of a Pro Bowl season on a BAD team

4. There is only 1 DT that is rated anywhere near him in the draft.

5. Only 1 FA DT has anywhere near his skills

Add all that up and Rogers is worth a TON on the FA market.

We can probably get a player and a pic for him...or multiple pics...including a mid to late 1st rounder.

The reality is if we trade him we still have Rubin at NT...and S.Smith is a NT (not a DE) so we still have players at the position. Add into that the availability of Raji a real possibility at #5....and I say we go ahead and trade Rogers.

Add into all that the fact he is a HUGE cap number...and the fact we are NOT going to be a playoff team this year anyway (so getting Rubin in more playing time would be a benefit) and I think trading the disgruntled player a very viable option.

You make sense John, but man, we're letting the best players go with Winslow and then maybe Rogers?

Playmakers win in this league, and there is two of them right there.

The above quote came from an article by Marla Ridenhour.

We know about issues with both of these guys that may lead many of us to lean one direction or the other.

They're both acting a little inappropriate and we can only speculate as to why.

I was excited about the RAC hire but I was done with that experiment after year two. Many of you probably realize that since I joined this board and made you guys my collective "couch" and have continued my therapy sessions since. Thanks, by the way.

I am on record as not doing cartwheels over Manginis hiring. However, I can only imagine how busy he is at this current time.

New team.

Waiting weeks for your new boss to be hired (another stroke of genius for "Pocketbook"... that's Randy Lerner to those who reside outside of my head).

Putting together a staff.

I'm assuming he has a family to help get situated or at least getting himself squared away if the "fam" is staying put for the moment.

Watching tape and gathering info on your new players.

Watching tape on draft picks.

Watching tapes on how to watch tapes...

the list goes on and on.

What is Rogers doing right now? Hmmmmmm.....

...... eating?

...... Picking out a new Mercedes SUV?

...... Wondering how good his character will be on the new Madden?

...... Playing Madden?

...... While eating?

...... Debating whether or not he should "Twitter"?

...... While he eats?

...... Or Twitter about how much he eats?

...... Growing tired of watching A-rod and Manny on SC?

...... While he eats?

...... Wondering how he can get himself on SC?

...... Becoming more and more irritated because he hasn't secured a supermodel girlfriend yet?

He doesn't strike me as the gym-rat. He does strike me as the type of person, when given too much time, quickly comes around to playing out worst-case scenarios in his head. He's gone from a bad situation in Detroit to a disappointing situation in Cleveland and his now his eating buddy is gone.

I get that he probably takes some time off. I get that his weight probably balloons a little in the offseason. I get that he uses practices to prepare himself for the season and shed his "winter coat." I get that he may be a little miffed with the new weight policy. But he is one man on a 53 man roster. This is me first, not team first. This isn't what can I do to help, this is how do I get over.

Mangini has been around the block now and thanks to those he has worked with (we are a product of our environment to one degree or another) has developed his style and seems to be gung-ho on sticking with it. Rogers may only be the first person to get his feathers ruffled. He hasn't even began to address the team yet! Great Googa Moonga! This could get very interesting and extremely enjoyable if for no one else but Steeler fans!

Good or bad, Mangini is trying to turn a poor organization around and that's exactly what this is. Every year, we give our money to a bunch of #$%˚ø%&^µ√†∂#*@^$%#@&!^#$^$^#åß*∂≈%*%$##$&%&%^&^#$@#!!#!#&$&%#%@$@*#!$_@%$^%^%@$_! who have yet to show they understand what the hell they are doing. And this has gone on since the team returned regardless of who was the owner, President, GM, coach, QB......

Rogers needs to suck it up. Period. This team needs a leader on the field. He has proven he can play like one, can he act like one? What a waste of a golden opportunity.

Mangini needs to learn ruling with an iron fist does no good when it leads to mutiny. I had Drill Sgt's that kicked my ass but at the end of the day, they spoke to you like a human being(after week 6 anyway). You understood what it was they were trying to accomplish. And though you didn't particularly enjoy the methods, you were on board with the sought after results.

Who's right, who's wrong.... we'll debate until the season starts and still not have a general consensus. What we DO have is more evidence of a roller coaster ride. This regime will continue to have issues until they get it right starting from the top. Who is wrong here? I have a hard time ultimately blaming either of them when the bigger issue to me is the head of this snake. I can't help but feel we're going to get bit in the ass again regardless of Rogers or Mangini.

Stock up on alcohol my rabid friends... we're going to need it. At least we can enjoy the tailgating.

1. I think maybe Rogers just wants out of Cleveland and their 3-4, and always has. He's just found a couple of excuses.

2. Mangini is supposedly the kind of guy who won't go far to please his whining players, but he's "reaching out" to Rogers on multiple occasions?

So, let's look at this logically:

1. Several teams (KC/GB/etc) are going to the 3-4 defense...and lack the NT necessary for the scheme

2. Rogers has played at a high level in the 4-3 defense

3. Rogers is coming off of a Pro Bowl season on a BAD team

4. There is only 1 DT that is rated anywhere near him in the draft.

5. Only 1 FA DT has anywhere near his skills

Add all that up and Rogers is worth a TON on the FA market.

We can probably get a player and a pic for him...or multiple pics...including a mid to late 1st rounder.

The reality is if we trade him we still have Rubin at NT...and S.Smith is a NT (not a DE) so we still have players at the position. Add into that the availability of Raji a real possibility at #5....and I say we go ahead and trade Rogers.

Add into all that the fact he is a HUGE cap number...and the fact we are NOT going to be a playoff team this year anyway (so getting Rubin in more playing time would be a benefit) and I think trading the disgruntled player a very viable option.

Now he is in a position where he has to lose 20 lbs in a few weeks or not show up.

Rather than not show up because the Browns say not to, he won't because he all of a sudden finds problems with the Browns.

@calfoxwc said:

to not be noticed because of his size...

My guess is, he's very loyal to Crennel, and wasn't happy that Crennel lost his job as head coach.

Crennel is plenty a terrific guy, give him a personel liason job with the Browns.

with all the teams making the transition to the 3-4 this off-season a pro-bowl centerpiece is ridiculously coveted.

i suspect another team is drawing him away and this is all a smokescreen.

Doug

Chiefs Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters asked the organization Thursday to release or trade him this offseason, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

Waters asked for his release two days after a brief meeting with new head coach Todd Haley and after being told by first-time general manager Scott Pioli that he had no interest in meeting with Waters, the source said.

Waters, according to the source, was offended and shocked by what he perceived to be the arrogance of Haley and Pioli. Waters’ meeting with Haley and follow-up phone conversations confirmed in the nine-year vet’s mind that the negative reports about Haley he heard from Arizona Cardinals players while at the Pro Bowl were accurate, according to the source.

Did anyone ever stop and wonder why the Jet's management and new head coach wanted to keep the coordinators and only get rid of the head coach? Normally, everyone falls and takes the blame.

But the Jets organization saw it differently and they heard about it from the players. They saw how much his players hated him. Several came out and talked about it openly on WFAN after he was gone.

Mike Westoff came out and said on the radio that "while Mangini is very intelligent and his approach to the game is very cerebral, he has no idea how to realte or communicate with his players."

Revis was another one that went on WFAN and told of the problems with Mangini....And they were the same. Can't get along and/or relate to anyone.

.....And look what is happening already!

The Browns ran right out and hired this guy....Why? Because he just blew Randy Lerner away.....I'm sold!!

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/..._issues_pr.html

I'm not agreeing with Rogers or anything like that, but like mz the pussy said it's freaking Retarded to not just use human manners with players, especially those that are your core. I mean, I thought Phillip was a complete idiot for not at least giving Winslow a call.

Here's what I think is going on that all adds up to Rogers having a sore labia.

1) He is black. RAC 'n ROLLS was black. Mel Tucker was black. He had a good relationship with both of them and played his heart out while being injured last year. Mangini and Ryan are not black.

2) He believes neither of them were the reason the Browns went 4-12 last year and should not have been fired. More than likely he blames the fact that the Browns went their last six games without an offensive TD, DA sucked ass, Edwards sucked ass, Stallworth didn't play, Lewis left yards all over the field and yet the axe fell on his boys after both QB's were out.

3) He sees his best years dwindling while playing for losers, and perhaps doesn't believe this thing can be turned around that quickly, especially if a house cleaning is coming.

4) He sees his boys such as Shaun Smith and Davis in jeopardy of being flat out released, not resigned or forced to restructure.

5) He busted his ass last year and played injured, all while keeping his weight decent and certainly doesn't need to be treated like a fat boy that needs babysat before he even meets the new staff.

6) He feels all he left on the field last year went for not, especially when Mangini "snubbed" him. Just like in the real world when you get a new boss who doesn't know you and what you've accomplished, your strengths and others' weaknesses. You have to start all over again.

7) The reported things Mangini requires such as pop quizzes and such could be a big deterrent to someone such as Rogers who just wants to play football and not be treated like a rookie.

There's probably a few more possible reasons, but when all added up it means he is jumping to conclusions way too soon. It bothers me a little that he doesn't feel any loyalty to the fans. He'd start out next season as arguably the team's most popular player and he's certainly being well compensated. Also, it's got to be hard to move from team to team. Doesn't he feel any loyalty to his teammates either?

I see issues with both sides here, and I'm concerned that Mankok may be slightly clueless as to basic human nature of players and personnel. These are things that Mangini should be educated about now given his experience in New York already. I'll tell you right now, I like the fact we are going a different direction from player friendly coaching, but if I was Rogers and I played as hard as I did last year I would be pissed too when the new coach doesn't even acknowledge me. It's basic human nature. Something as simple as Mangini calling him shortly after getting the job or going up to him at the event could have negated the entire list above, but instead it just exasperated it.

This franchise cannot continue these basic Retarded maneuvers like this. A lot of this stuff is so easily avoidable. Where's Jim Brown in all this? This is supposedly what he's being paid for is to be a liaison with the players and staff. Why didn't he get wind of this and let someone know to keep it from escalating?